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No Way to Grow Up

nytimes.com

41–50 of 714 posts

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#41

You can't have a years-long pandemic without consequences, good and bad. My state of Texas has had schools open almost all of this time--and we're not doing better than the other states. Where are all the folks in the United States who say that parents are the best teachers of their children, that home-schooling should rule the day, that the best care comes from families? That would imply that children would be bette…

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Re: No Way to Grow Up

#42

You can't have a years-long pandemic without consequences, good and bad. My state of Texas has had schools open almost all of this time--and we're not doing better than the other states. Where are all the folks in the United States who say that parents are the best teachers of their children, that home-schooling should rule the day, that the best care comes from families? That would imply that children would be bette…

I'm not in the US, but the home-schooling comparison is not fair from my Australian experience of it.

In home schooling a parent teaches the kids, full time, with no pressure from their day job.

In pandemic home schooling, the parent probably is trying to do a job at the same time (or do a shift to suit or something?) is stressed out, and is not setting the curriculum - instead the teacher is setting the day's agenda via a zoom call or two, and the kids have to follow the exercises after. Some of these exercises may not make sense to the parents.

The parents don't get any advance "teachers notes" or inkling of what is coming, the exercises appear and if the kid is stuck you need to figure out how to help them.

In summary pandemic remote schooling is not home schooling for 2 reasons. One is the parents probably have their main job to do. Two is the parents are not teaching, they are at best a teachers assistant who is badly prepped.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#43

> For the past two years, Americans have accepted more harm to children in exchange for less harm to adults. At first we didn't know how much harm the virus would cause to children. But now that we see it is much less dangerous for them we shouldn't be preventing them from learning because we are afraid of getting sick. The children are the future, and in order to secure a positive growth in society it is our obligat…

> The children are the future, and in order to secure a positive growth in society it is our obligation to give them their very important education.

Great, so just set up a fund to compensate teachers and daycare workers who get long covid in order to pay their salary and medical expenses for the rest of their lives if they're unable to work.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#44

I am very thankful that my youngest graduated high school in 2020. The last couple of months were screwed up, but there wasn't much real education lost by then; most seniors pretty much check out after Spring Break anyway. I really feel for the kids who are younger. The effects of this are going to be with us for decades.

Did your kid go on to college? My two kids did and it's a pretty lousy experience. Classes are mostly online still, cafeterias are take out only, socialization opportunities are mostly gone.

My last year of higher edu was remote and I really loved it in 80%

Finally I didn't have to waste time on commute and it was way easier to ignore doubtful profs/useless courses and focus on the right things.

but yea, things may be harder if you don't know people you're studying with

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#45
post #34

When I was a kid there was a big earthquake where I lived and my life was disrupted for a few weeks. Many decades later I still have latent trauma from that incident. Children involved in situations like accidents, wars, disasters and abuse need years and sometimes lifelong therapy to deal with it. We are kidding ourselves if we think that the long list of behavioral changes we are starting to see in kids is simply a…

> When I was a kid there was a big earthquake where I lived and my life was disrupted for a few weeks. Many decades later I still have latent trauma from that incident.

From the earthquake, or from the disruption?

It's an important distinction in the COVID case. Are kids being traumatized by having to attend school via Zoom, or are they being traumatized by living through a global pandemic?

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#46

In 30 years these kids will be running the world. I can only hope they'll understand why this happened to them, so the next generation will be a bit wiser.

Yeah I really hope they’ll learn to understand the infinite wisdom our government had during covid.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#47

In 30 years these kids will be running the world. I can only hope they'll understand why this happened to them, so the next generation will be a bit wiser.

Unfortunately, through advances in medical technology, the 70 year olds who run the world right now will probably still be running the world in 30 years.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#48
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning here is flawed: we had early positive evidence that COVID-19 was particularly dangerous for the elderly and those with a variety of medical preconditions. We didn't have positive or negative evidence that children weren't an at-risk group (for any number of reasons: lack of case evidence, the fact that children can't be modeled medically as adults, etc.). Instead, we applied the lessons of the common fl…

>We didn't have positive or negative evidence that children weren't an at-risk group Why aren't the low death rates for the 0-17 cohort enough?

Because people are experiencing long-term effects besides death.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#49
Except that real solutions never seem to be on the table.

For example, how about atomizing school into pods of smaller numbers of students with teachers scattered around the district instead of 30+ students per teacher with 1000+ students crammed into a building or campus? This would be especially effective for the youngest students. And a "Covid Outbreak" would shut down less than a dozen students and a teacher for a week or two and be done with it.

But, you see, that would take money. And everybody likes to bitch about education but nobody wants to spend actual cash.

And, by the way, if you think its been bad on kids, the teachers have had it bad, too. Unlike the kids, the teachers had a much higher probability of dying. And they get the joy of being on the frontlines with the anti-vax idiots. Any teachers I know of who can exit have been running for the doors.

Re: No Way to Grow Up

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: at first it was extremely obvious that this virus was affecting you harder the older you are, with 60+ populations starting to be at risk. Nobody thought it was harming children.

The reasoning here is flawed: we had early positive evidence that COVID-19 was particularly dangerous for the elderly and those with a variety of medical preconditions. We didn't have positive or negative evidence that children weren't an at-risk group (for any number of reasons: lack of case evidence, the fact that children can't be modeled medically as adults, etc.). Instead, we applied the lessons of the common fl…

No. As the article explains, this uncertainty might explain at most a couple months of the initial response. It was very obvious, very early, that the risk to children was low and did not fit the age profile of the flu. Nearly all the debate around closing schools was in regards to their role as general transmission hubs (many argued that kids didn't even transmit COVID enough to worry about) and the risk to teachers. Nobody who was paying attention thought going to school was going to kill lots of kids relative to historically normal levels of child mortality.

If you're having a hard time remembering how things actually played out in 2020, just ask yourself: did you hear about pediatric wards filling up with COVID patients? No, you did not. You heard about an extremely rare multisystem inflammatory disorder and that's about it.

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