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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#941

Post by irthomasthomas »

druadh wrote: post #932
giantrobot wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, something that most industry folks would think will take 20-30 years (or is feasibly impossible ie. reusable rockets), Elon gives a 5 year timeline and his team actually gets it done in 10 -- still less time than anyone thought possible. No one realistically thought reusable rockets were impossible or even infeasible. Reusable rockets trade lift capacity for reusability. A single-use Falcon 9 lifts mor…

> No one realistically thought reusable rockets were impossible or even infeasible. Not addressing the point of my comment here ^, but why didn't anyone else do it if it was feasible and possible? And how long would it have taken an agency like NASA to actually start and complete the project? > Keep in mind the Space Shuttle (a reusable rocket) had been flying for thirty years before Space X landed a Falcon 9. Wasn't…

It is akin to Heinz trying to reuse and refill their cans of beans. Rocket engines are big disposable tin cans carrying very expensive beans.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#942

Post by Pxtl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #864
Pxtl wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, patients were prevented from testifying about the impact of the damage caused by the incorrect test results. That means life-changing pain and suffering was concealed from the jury.

Not true: here is one example of testimony: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/theranos-patient-says-blood-...

Ah, thanks for the info. My mistake.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#943

Post by geophile »

lokar wrote: post #902
geophile wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a pretty sharp line separating what Holmes tried, and what legitimate startups do. What she claimed had no basis in reality. It's Borat trying to patent a hoverboard, just like in Back to the Future, and telling the VC that he "needs to come up with the science" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXuDhejxz_c ). Except that Holmes was worse, claiming that she had the science. And she insulated herself…

Was there really no science at all? I've not followed the details, but I assumed she had something, but that it was just unworkable now or anytime soon

It's been a while since I read the book, but I don't recall any scientific basis at all. Pure hoverboard.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#944

Post by m3047 »

geophile wrote: post #747
evancoop wrote: post #715

The relevant detail, in my mind, is not whether Holmes deserves punishment, or even how much. The relevant detail is how the judge ultimately sentences Holmes, and more importantly, on what basis the judge selects the upper or lower range of possible sentencing outcomes. Considering that BS, stretching of capabilities, and so on are commonplace in the startup world, the point isn't whether Holmes crossed the line (sh…

I think there is a pretty sharp line separating what Holmes tried, and what legitimate startups do. What she claimed had no basis in reality. It's Borat trying to patent a hoverboard, just like in Back to the Future, and telling the VC that he "needs to come up with the science" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXuDhejxz_c ). Except that Holmes was worse, claiming that she had the science. And she insulated herself…

> It's Borat trying to patent a hoverboard

Wow! That's interesting! While nobody has been paying attention, forward-looking patents have become acceptable (I don't agree that this is a good thing). Seriously, that's a fact; and here comes Holmes apparently claiming to have the science, am I right? There is language which apparently (IANAL) needs to be watched especially around verb tense when filing such patents.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#945

Post by hidudeurcool »

ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

No post body was provided.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#946

Post by WalterBright »

roelschroeven wrote: post #927
WalterBright wrote: post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her story arc is much like Bernie Madoff's. He, too, only really hurt wealthy investors. But did anyone feel bad for him?

Only hurt wealthy investors? What about people who received incorrect testing results, like the woman who was given a false-positive HIV result and the woman who was incorrectly told that she was miscarrying? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/09/theranos-results... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/11/theranos-gave-wo...

They certainly got a scare, but it's hard to see that they were harmed.

Generally, when one gets a scary result from a test, another test is done to confirm.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#948

Post by giantrobot »

druadh wrote: post #932
giantrobot wrote: post #911

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, something that most industry folks would think will take 20-30 years (or is feasibly impossible ie. reusable rockets), Elon gives a 5 year timeline and his team actually gets it done in 10 -- still less time than anyone thought possible. No one realistically thought reusable rockets were impossible or even infeasible. Reusable rockets trade lift capacity for reusability. A single-use Falcon 9 lifts mor…

> No one realistically thought reusable rockets were impossible or even infeasible. Not addressing the point of my comment here ^, but why didn't anyone else do it if it was feasible and possible? And how long would it have taken an agency like NASA to actually start and complete the project? > Keep in mind the Space Shuttle (a reusable rocket) had been flying for thirty years before Space X landed a Falcon 9. Wasn't…

> Not addressing the point of my comment here ^, but why didn't anyone else do it if it was feasible and possible?

Because their customers didn't need it. The medium lift space only has a few players because there's not a huge number of customers. In heavy lift there's even fewer customers.

The established players had legacy expendable stacks with a proven flight history. There was no incentive to redesign their systems to be reusable and then start fresh with a flight record.

> And how long would it have taken an agency like NASA to actually start and complete the project?

SpaceX has gotten considerable amounts of money from NASA to develop the Falcon 9. Even the video you shared is SpaceX landing their rockets at a NASA facility. SpaceX is essentially a NASA subcontractor developing a reusable rocket. So the answer to your question is whatever amount of time it's taken SpaceX to develop the reusable Falcon 9.

Like I said, SpaceX has done some cool things. I'm not trying to take away from their real accomplishments. But there's some ridiculous fanboy shit around Musk and his companies. He's done a good job of publicizing his companies' accomplishments and people seem to jump to a conclusion that they just invented concepts whole cloth that could have never existed without some magic.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#949

Post by 908B64B197 »

bb101 wrote: post #786
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

I do feel sorry for her in a way. She was riding a treadmill of expectations. Started off slowly, probably thinking "yeah, we can do this" and by the time the treadmill was moving at light speed, it was too late to get off. Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube. What responsibility do the media bear when their shallow hype turns out to be false and damaging to all parties?

> Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube.

Why? I would add a disclaimer that they don't endorse it and maybe a link to the ruling but at this point it's an historical document.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#950

Post by thechao »

jaynetics wrote: post #617
thechao wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite tshirt is for a company picnic for Enron (scheduled for after it’s dissolution); the back is covered in MBAspeak: honesty, integrity, … It’s one of my favorites — up there with my Orwellian yellow plastic “Great Place To Work” Intel tamborine .

> my Orwellian yellow plastic “Great Place To Work” Intel tamborine That sounds hilarious, can you post a picture?

https://imgur.com/a/nbDGVkq
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