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ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

reuters.com

261–270 of 319 posts

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps students could use or even operate them. Undergraduate level electrical engineers would love to have access to a fab, even one a couple decades behind cutting edge.

Stanford had that. In the 1980s, Stanford built a state of the art fab on campus. And, through 2014, they had a 1980s state of the art fab.

What happened in 2014 ?

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#262

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

When I was a grad at a similar tech company, I avoided alluding to it on HN for fear of appearing to be representing the company (after training mentioning this). Are ASML more forgiving?

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#263

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

This definitely doesn't match how I heard some software is done there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181

This is the sort of thing that shys me away from every working at a hardware company doing software.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#264

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

As a person whose first job after graduation was at ASML, and left after 6 months, if you like software I don't think it's the best company to work at.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#265

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

This definitely doesn't match how I heard some software is done there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181

yep. accurate comment. How do you like 40M LOC with 50% code duplication?

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This definitely doesn't match how I heard some software is done there: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181

That sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen. I’m amazed that hasn’t put an egg on their face. Are their customers complaining about issues? And how can the risk managers know so much about potential regressions? Are they a panel of former engineers?! So many questions

keep in mind that machines like those are so complex that you don't simply buy them and install them.

It's more like getting custom-made artisanal goods: each machine has a "father/mother" from its 'conception' til delivery who treats it as their (work) baby. Then a special plane will fly the machine and a team of dedicated engineers will spend weeks in your fab doing install / validation. The process is long and complex.

Downtime are really painful and expensive so the philosophy is "better copy paste the code rather than change what's working". downtime are not very frequent but people are just the least expensive / worrying thing there. It's not like you can easily start a competitor...

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Morale also suffered because of the push to implement Scaled Agile (SAFe) in the software teams.

Yea, Agile in semi/HW industry is pure cancer. Innovations in this industry come as you let your engineers take their time to try out a million things that don't work in order to eventually, after months or even years, get to that one thing that does work, not by shoving them in the Agile meat grinder of daily standups, sprints, TPS reports, velocity charts, grooming meetings, etc. Agile in HW only "works" when your…

Parent said Scaled Agile Framework, which is rather alike waterfall- top down management- with agile ceremonies.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#268
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, we have a gigantic public works program known as the US Military, with guaranteed work, free college, public health insurance and a pension if you stay in long enough. Why not do it for just about every critical part of life? Why only do it for the "being ready to kill adversaries" subset?

Doesn’t every (US) government job provide most of that, except maybe free college? If you work for the IRS or the USPS, don’t you get guaranteed work, public health insurance and a pension after some number of decades of service?

I'm talking about expanding what jobs are federally funded and guaranteed. In the context of this thread and supply chain security, I'm talking about a federally subsidized chipmaking industry for national security purposes.

More broadly I think about all teachers and first responders.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#269
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who else has reduced the cost of solar panel manufacturing over the past 10 years? As far as I can tell it's entirely, 100%, Chinese companies. But maybe you know something I don't. I don't know enough about smartphones, electric cars, conventional cars, reciprocating engines, jet engines, airliners, reusable rockets, or AI to comment on what the big innovations in the last few years are, where they came from, and wh…

Look I don't have time to try to answer all this now I'll try to get back to it but I would like to make clear that I am not talking about Chinese people or people of Chinese race or ancestry here. I'm talking about China the country. There are brilliant people of Chinese ancestry who are responsible for many such innovations, many papers and inventions you see coming from western academia and companies have the name…

And nor do I say China has done nothing. They just aren't the infinitely-resourced borg that will end up overtaking everyone in everything that people seem to take as a safe assumption.

It seems that we agree.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, Chinese innovation and efficiency in manufacturing alone rivals most other kinds in the world - it's truly a marvel for a country to be able to pay it's factory worker a higher wage than the average wage of several EU countries while actually doing the manufacturing at an integer fraction of the cost. That takes a massive amount of innovation that no country in the world is able to match. The value of t…

Sure. I didn't say China has done nothing impressive (although it's emissions intensity of manufacturing and other environmental and labor rights records are horrible, which takes a some of the shine off its manufacturing for me, but that blame is equally on western governments and corporations who conspired to circumvent the environmental and labor standards demanded by their populations by farming them out to total…

"But it's bite does not match its bark when it comes to developing and inventing new ideas and technology."

You just had a huge thread of repeating this over an over, and you have never stated why you believe this, what have you counted or measured to arrive at that conclusion? Patents? GDP growth, scientific papers? Is it 'just a feeling'?

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