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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#791

Post by qwerty456127 »

Although I acknowledge the fact of her wrongdoing and that such has to be prosecuted so others would "think twice" before committing a fraud (healthcare-related fraud especially) I, to be sincere, understandably feel zero real anger to her - because the whole thing happened rather far away and didn't affect anybody I know.

At the same time I feel genuinely curious about her thoughts and emotions as she unarguably is a formidable lady - scamming so many supposedly smart and competent people obviously requires outstanding logical and emotional intelligence (note emotional intelligence doesn't necessarily imply being good, it means being good at observing, understanding and managing emotions of yourself and others, whatever a purpose, good or evil), understanding of the market, society and people.

This makes me sad she herself never wrote a book and if and when she will (perhaps she'll have time for that in the prison) she is hardly going to write anything but "I'm so sorry" bullshit.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#792

Post by ineedasername »

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.)

Especially because it was those same directors' reputations that likely helped the fraud go on so long. There was probably a fair number of skeptics who thought "Surely they wouldn't put their name on something like this if there was nothing there". I doubt Kissinger or the people around him want the last of his legacy to be punctuated by Theranos.

I'll be honest: I kind of thought the same thing. That a breakthrough in science of this magnitude with so much silence around its details was strange, especially in the face of some expert skepticism. But the idea that Henry Kissinger etc. would attach themselves to it without compelling evidence made me more or less shrug my shoulders and move on.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#793

Post by some_random »

bb101 wrote: post #786
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

I do feel sorry for her in a way. She was riding a treadmill of expectations. Started off slowly, probably thinking "yeah, we can do this" and by the time the treadmill was moving at light speed, it was too late to get off. Even TED has removed her talk from YouTube. What responsibility do the media bear when their shallow hype turns out to be false and damaging to all parties?

Nah you shouldn't feel bad for her, if you read into it she was constantly lying from the very beginning. As for media responsibility, I don't know how responsible they really are here for the actual fraud. While Holmes sent their stories of her to investors, she also had fake documents and other lies that made the bulk of her pitch (ie the military work).

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#794

Post by ekanes »

johnebgd wrote: post #775
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gell-Man Amnesia Effect in full effect. Will we remember when we read the next PR piece/pump and dump disguised as journalism?

No one in the media seems to still question if cryptocurrencies are serious investment assets despite little actual proven utility beyond being a speculative investment asset.

I’d like to bet someone on this. If you or others are interested maybe we can refine a wager. :)

I’m thinking that in 7 years there will be something built with blockchain tech (not cryptocurrency) that is used by 10M people?

(I know you said cryptocurrencies but many people conflate the two and feel it’s all bogus..)

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#795

Post by yalogin »

I have to say I am a little surprised. I expected her to not be convicted and end up with millions of her scammed money and slowly make her way into the entrepreneurial circle. Glad she is convicted though.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#796

Post by bumby »

wiz21c wrote: post #780
jasode wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Considering that BS, stretching of capabilities, and so on are commonplace in the startup world, the point isn't whether Holmes crossed the line (she did), but rather, how exactly that line is repositioned by this precedent. I really don't see the line being repositioned at all because typical founder bs and Holme's fraud have a clear difference: - bs is often overinflated promises of the _future_ that don't come tr…

> pie-in-the-sky overconfidence of founders I always wonder do they really are overconfident, or are they so because somehow they think they would miss opportunities if they are less overconfident than their competitors ? It sounds much like advertising always selling you things using very ambiguous wording in order to make you dream. For me that's just lying.

This is a documented bias in civil projects and one of the factors of why they are notoriously over schedule and over budget.

An optimism bias leads naive project managers to gauge cost and schedule on best case scenarios. Less naive managers then have to give equally optimistic projections, just to have a hope of getting funded even if they know the projections are wrong.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#798

Post by Grustaf »

biztos wrote: post #789
ferdowsi wrote: post #737

I'm loving reading through all of the sickening puff pieces that business/tech journalists put out about her and Theranos. It's funny to think back to 2015 and the hagiographical void still left in tech journo hearts after Steve Jobs died. https://www.inc.com/ilan-mochari/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-i... > How Elizabeth Holmes Became America's New Entrepreneurial Icon > She represents the part of entrepreneurship that…

> She only pauses in her work to run — seven miles a day. -- Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen, yes that Andreessen, writing in the New York Times Magazine about Visionary Tech Entrepreneurs with, um, no conflict of interest whatsoever I'm sure. Turns out Palantir's Alex Karp was also "harnessing goodness through technology." No idea how she missed Adam Neumann. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/12/t-magazine/el..…

A16z didn't invest in Theranos, did Marc personally invest or what is the conflict?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#799

Post by johnebgd »

caslon wrote: post #787
johnebgd wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one in the media seems to still question if cryptocurrencies are serious investment assets despite little actual proven utility beyond being a speculative investment asset.

>Why Cryptocurrency Is A Giant Fraud >Speculators might make money on it, but the arguments for its usefulness fail completely. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2021/04/why-cryptocurrency-is... >Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history >It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen. https://www.vox.com/2018/4/24/17275202/bitcoin-scam-cryptocu... >The Great Cryptocurrency Scam https://…

Articles you cited are from years ago or a contributor (not an employee) of Forbes.

I met Jackson Palmer in 2017/2018 and he had a level head for looking through this mania.

Even the Tether fraud hasn’t stopped the Bitcoin buying frenzy.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#800

Post by leroy_masochist »

ineedasername wrote: post #792

Ironic that her board of directors-- one of the most praised aspects of Theranos-- probably hurt her when it came to going after her with criminal charges. These were some of the most well-connected people in the country, and making them look like fools did her no favors. Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution. (which I think she deserved anyway.) Espe…

> Once it was clear this wouldn't go away quietly, I'd bet they pushed hard to ensure criminal prosecution.

You're saying that Mattis, Cohen, etc had the ability to influence decisions within Trump's DoJ and exerted that ability in order to ensure that charges were filed against Holmes in 2018? If so, why do you think this?

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