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ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

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Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most semiconductor/electronics companies are not at all remote friendly, in the way you'd imagine, since, like you said, their core business is lab centered and focused on selling products you have to physically interact with, unlike the pure SW industry. Some are however, remote friendly in the way that they do offer WFH options, but that means you live around the office/HQ for legal and security reasons and can WFH…

Morale also suffered because of the push to implement Scaled Agile (SAFe) in the software teams.

Yea, Agile in semi/HW industry is pure cancer. Innovations in this industry come as you let your engineers take their time to try out a million things that don't work in order to eventually, after months or even years, get to that one thing that does work, not by shoving them in the Agile meat grinder of daily standups, sprints, TPS reports, velocity charts, grooming meetings, etc.

Agile in HW only "works" when your company is a sweatshop, operating on low margins, bind by churning out commodity stuff in volume to demanding customers (i.e. Apple) on a strict cadence with the fear that if you don't deliver on time and under budget, then they go somewhere else, so you hire some Agile consultants to act as whip-crakcers and henchmen of management to make sure your devs are busy bees and ship, ship, ship.

I assume this is not the case with ASML (and maybe also with the likes of Nvidia, etc.) as they're the tip of the spear and so far ahead of the competition that they can take their time and charge however much they want and their customers have no other choice but to wait and pay up as there's nobody else to go to for competitive alternatives in the bleeding edge space.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#222
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was not solely responsible for solar panel cost/efficiency improvements of the past 10 years, so that's embellished. And yes they make vaccines and nuclear reactors like many countries do or have done. And I'll just repeat that I didn't say they produce or invent zero new things. For all their rhetoric, there is not matching output of new technologies in my opinion. Almost everywhere I look yes they often play…

Who else has reduced the cost of solar panel manufacturing over the past 10 years? As far as I can tell it's entirely, 100%, Chinese companies. But maybe you know something I don't. I don't know enough about smartphones, electric cars, conventional cars, reciprocating engines, jet engines, airliners, reusable rockets, or AI to comment on what the big innovations in the last few years are, where they came from, and wh…

> Who else has reduced the cost of solar panel manufacturing over the past 10 years? As far as I can tell it's entirely, 100%, Chinese companies. But maybe you know something I don't.

The solar cost reduction numbers come in the form of reduced cost to manufacture and improved panel performance. There is a lot of non-Chinese research into the latter, but even in the former case a lot of inventions and technology is developed then licensed. USA and Germany.

> I don't know enough about smartphones,

Smartphones, invented in the US.

> electric cars,

Obviously not recently invented, but the recent push to make these competitive and take market share has all come from US, Germany, Japan, and SK.

> conventional cars, reciprocating engines

> jet engines, airliners,

China has been trying to develop their own jet engines for 70 years and desperately needed a competitive jet engine since 40 years when they broke up with the Soviets. No dice. They also want civilian airliners rather than having to buy from the US or EU. There's always rumors this time they might have got something workable last year, but it's quite amazing how difficult it has been for them.

> reusable rockets,

Well the Chinese rocket program is basically repeating the rockets of the 60s. Meanwhile US companies are basically re-inventing commercial rocketry with innovations significantly reusable rockets. China has quickly tried to follow that naturally and they could well do a good job. My point is the innovation and the new ideas aren't coming from there. It's just the same story where ever I look.

> or AI

Just more same thing. The inventions around the recent AI boom ("deep learning" advances like neural networks on GPUs, GAN) has not come out of China.

> The most interesting innovations I've seen in CPUs in recent years are from Padauk (China)

What's interesting about Padauk?

> RISC-V (everywhere, especially Berkeley, but also including China).

RISC-V is another great example that's not come out of China. Despite the fact they desperately need an unencumbered ISA (which is part of the reason for their extraordinary hijacking of their ARM subsidiary), they had never taken the step to create their own (before that they were using MIPS). Using RISC-V is just more of the same thing: following not inventing or leading.

The ISA is not really where much innovation is going on in computing though. You just need something as an interface, and everyone is more or less the same (although RISC-V is not very good as ISAs go, sadly).

> NVIDIA seems to be leading in GPUs; like Lam Research, it's an American company with a Chinese-American founder.

Yes, and yet again not Chinese.

> But now the critical innovation bottleneck seems to be not designing a working CPU design but successfully manufacturing it, and the supreme giant in the field is TSMC, a Chinese company,

It's both, for high performance CPUs and GPUs. There are only a few companies on the planet who can do the logic and circuit design, Intel, AMD, Apple at the cutting edge, and say ARM and IBM after that.

Also we're talking about mainland China or the nation governed by the CCP here (the context was "China" catching up with "not China" in silicon manufacturing). So China does not have TSMC.

> In terms of crypto, it's an extremely international community, but two of the most significant achievements of the last 20 years were the collision attacks on MD5 and SHA1, which were found at Shandong University, which is in China. (Of course nobody knows where Satoshi is from, but China is near the bottom of the list of possibilities.)

Comparatively little crypto has come from China compared with, say, USA. Who developed the crypto math and algorithms that you're using right now?

> I agree with you about operating systems and programming languages, though of course if you `git annotate` Linux you will find a rather large slice of it is written by people with Chinese names, a lot of whom work at Chinese companies.

Not actually a lot compared with how much they rely on Linux (a non-Chinese invention). Recently it has picked up in number, but you actually find a lot of those are janitorial and automated linter type of patches. There are some good developments from China, but very few compared with many other countries.

> As for drugs, well, I explained in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29792057 how far China is from "playing catch up" with respect to covid vaccines. But maybe in other drugs it's true. What are the big new innovations in drugs, and where do they originate?

Well since we're on the topic of COVID their vaccines have been a great achievement. Chinese vaccines use inactivated virus, adenovirus vectors, subunit/protein, which were all techniques developed by the west for a long time. The new mRNA vaccine they are developing is based on this new mRNA vaccine technology which has largely been developed and invented outside China.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#223

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

I am currently beginning a PhD in physics (mathematical modeling, simulation on HPC) in Switzerland, and I am afraid that after my PhD, I won't find a job that really pleases me. These last years, I came under the impression that you currently can only find ML driven software engineering jobs (I am exagerating of course), and having done quite a bit of ML and software engineering, I now know that I don't want my futu…

This comment makes me wonder how much ML is used at ASML or if there is an growing trend ...

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#225
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have some knowledge that we do not. Care to share your source of information?

Quoted post unavailable.

> he is right, it is the same story as OVH's recent fires

No, he is not, and you are not right either.

Spewing baseless accusations, creating facts out of thin air, is best way to get flagged on HN.

Yes, some countries want to slow EU. No, that does not give you right to claim it is a sabotage when you have absolutely zero knowledge about it.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#226

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

I am currently beginning a PhD in physics (mathematical modeling, simulation on HPC) in Switzerland, and I am afraid that after my PhD, I won't find a job that really pleases me. These last years, I came under the impression that you currently can only find ML driven software engineering jobs (I am exagerating of course), and having done quite a bit of ML and software engineering, I now know that I don't want my futu…

>Do you know by chance if there are similar companies (complex engineering, with physics, maths, chemistry, computer science, ...) that are located in Switzerland ?

AFAIK, Switzerland is full of such companies. Especially since CERN and many top universities and research institutes are there.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#227

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

After working at ASML would you get enough knowledge to start competing company? Or is the job so protected with NDAs that basically you wouldn't be able to translate or use the gained knowledge anywhere else? I am thinking, for example, when you realise the working conditions are not great or you are paid not enough, do you have any leverage? If ASML has no competition, then do you have any negotiating power?

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#228

I work in the industry and have worked in a fab. Here is some insight. We are taught that fabs are not treated as factories but as hazardous chemical storage plants. On top of that, we work with high pressure and high power systems. Fires have accounted for the most damage to fabs over the years; however, this situation is different. The site is not a fab, it is a ASML manufacturing plant. This plant does not produce…

I am currently beginning a PhD in physics (mathematical modeling, simulation on HPC) in Switzerland, and I am afraid that after my PhD, I won't find a job that really pleases me. These last years, I came under the impression that you currently can only find ML driven software engineering jobs (I am exagerating of course), and having done quite a bit of ML and software engineering, I now know that I don't want my futu…

A lot of FLUKA radiation simulations at CERN if you like that !

The environment is nice, but the area personally didn't work out for me.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#229
post #62

Like water, food, and electricity, electronics have become an integral part of life. Every single country that can afford to bootstrap their own semiconductor manufacturing infrastructure should be scrambling to do so. This infrastructure doesn't have to be cutting edge. Even 90s-era tech should be enough to cover a country's basic needs in case of a global collapse or shortage. It's insane for humanity to continue p…

I have the exact opposite opinion. Mandatory trade relationsips and closely interconnected supply chains are an important factor in preventing larger wars.

That's Cold War thinking: "if goods cross borders, soldiers won't".

The reality slowly dawning on us is that if goods cross borders, soliders don't have to.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nope, before the Sino-Soviet split and shortly thereafter there was zero serious effort to build jet engines. Nope, the WP-1A was built in 1958. Just because they were incapable of designing their own competitive jet engine does not mean they were not attempting to. > China never, ever, ever had anywhere near the engineering resources of the Soviet Union. To suggest as much is insanity. They arrived to that level s…

In 1958 the Chinese built the WP-5/PF-1 the WP-1A, which was a license built version of the Soviet VK-1 and descendants. The first Chinese-designed jet engine was the WP-14, and the project started in the mid 80s. China did not have enough engineers to rival the USSR until after the fall. > That shows how much you know. It is a huge priority for them and it has been for a long time. It really hasn't. Defence in gener…

> In 1958 the Chinese built the WP-5/PF-1 the WP-1A, which was a license built version of the Soviet VK-1 and descendants.

The WP-5 was the VK-1 clone which was the first jet built in China in 1956.

The WP-1A was a Chinese design in built in 1958.

After that they claim not to have developed any, but that's because they were all failures until Kunlun which they don't want to boast about so they make that one sound like the very first effort. It was not.

> China did not have enough engineers to rival the USSR until after the fall.

Maybe. It doesn't take 30 years to train an engineer though. How many engineers did they have?

> It really hasn't.

It really has. They've been trying to reverse engineer and clone Russian engines for a long time. Why would they be doing that if they were satisfied just buying Russian?

> Defence in general is not a big priority of the Chinese state. Even within defence, producing new airframes is a much bigger than domestic engines.

That's what they claim of course because they don't like to draw attention to their failures.

> Incorrect. The most advanced Russian engine in mass production is the AL-31F series, which is sold to China. Further developments intended for production, the AL-41F, are not in mass production.

So not the most advanced ones.

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