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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#631

Post by batmansmk »

causality0 wrote: post #587

What's the takeaway from this other than "killing people by giving phony medical test results is just fine, but don't you dare anger the wealthy"?

As an american resident, I feel less safe being healed in USA after yesterday's judgement. Healthcare should not be just business. Food additives, sugar and the obesity crisis, a list of 1,300 chemicals used in cosmetics, the Vioxx scandal, the opioids crisis and more generally the drug situation, the cost of healthcare, tanking life expectancy... The list is long on why "healthcare is just business" is not working.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#632

Post by coldtea »

afterburner wrote: post #596
causality0 wrote: post #587

What's the takeaway from this other than "killing people by giving phony medical test results is just fine, but don't you dare anger the wealthy"?

Did you know they only ever got Al Capone on tax evasion? Would you draw a similar conclusion in that case, or maybe did the effort put into pinning Capone on tax evasion have more to do with how he was running a murderous criminal organization for many years?

>Did you know they only ever got Al Capone on tax evasion? Would you draw a similar conclusion in that case

Yeah. Gangster?

Police doesn't care or is on the payroll.

The IRS however will get you -- it will only let the very rich off.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#633

Post by coldtea »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #623
rtpg wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should read bad blood. There are interviews with people who had disorders and theranos blood tests gave false negatives thanks to that, delaying treatment for a long while. I don’t know about everyone but it’s reallllly hard to find sympathy for somebody who plays fast and loose with peoples health like this. She wasn’t an arms manufacturer but I don’t really see the sympathy angle here (especially considering ho…

Oh, the dude's book. Maybe the jury should have read the dude's book. Then they wouldn't have acquitted her of all the charges related to end-user patients. Maybe because all of that was quite overblown anyway.

It's ok that people got duped then with what they knew.

But you seem to want to still be duped now, as if Theranos still represents some noble promise...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#634

Post by globular-toast »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #562
reidjs wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One interesting find from that search, here’s two videos of Holmes, in the first she fakes a creepy deep voice for the entirety of the interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YecjzEScXqU&t=105 In this video she is being interviewed on Mad Money, using her (assumed) actual voice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGfaJZAdfNE&t=403 What a strange person.

I never could understand why people pay so much attention to her voice. It's not that deep, I've known plenty of females with voice deeper than what you call 'creepy deep voice'. Such voice is not that rare and definitely not creepy, just voice. Also some throat infections can temporarily make the voice lower.

It's not about how deep it is. It's about it being fake.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#635

Post by rgallagher27 »

droidno9 wrote: post #521
tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

Don't discount the possibility that she'll have her sentence commuted by a future President. Look at the roster of political heavyweights that she was able to attract to the company. It wouldn't surprise me if one or more of these people still have an affinity for her and, at the right time, throw some good words in the President's ears on her behalf.

Doubt it, she humiliated these people.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#636

Post by donkarma »

sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

Now I want some, look at what you've started.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#637

Post by globular-toast »

travelhead wrote: post #547

Elizabeth could have saved herself many of these charges by telling investors she was pivoting to using 3rd party testing devices, reducing the number of tests, and transitioning to a business model involving venous blood drawing as a service with lower costs and better branding. Instead, she decided to continue to lie to investors even though she knew her tech didn’t work as she represented.

Let's be honest, she probably didn't have a clue what was going on. She just stuck to the narrative which became more and more distant from a reality she could not grasp.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#638

Post by Closi »

kashif wrote: post #630
junon wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That proving some things in court is easier than other things and by reducing down nuanced legal systems to "rich bad" doesn't help the situation any.

Despite this being true, it is important that people are prosecuted for the "all" the wrongs they did and not just the "easy" ones. It isn't much of a justice system if you can get away with "hard to prosecute" crimes.

As a counterpoint, IMO it's important that people are only prosecuted when there is sufficient evidence for a likely and safe conviction (otherwise at best we will drag everyone through expensive court battles which don't lead anywhere, and at worst we will end up with unsafe convictions).

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#639

Post by nova22033 »

causality0 wrote: post #587

What's the takeaway from this other than "killing people by giving phony medical test results is just fine, but don't you dare anger the wealthy"?

The only takeaway is that the burden is on the prosecutors to prove that she defrauded the patients..and they failed to meet the burden.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#640

Post by odiroot »

mdoms wrote: post #340
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Ok I'm not American so perhaps my perspective is different... More than 10 years would be utterly barbaric. The 65 years mentioned in another comment chain would be well beyond the pale. I'm no fan of Holmes, but what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

It would be totally justified to cap it at 10 years in this case, provided she's forever banned from being an executive in any company. Not sure if it's compatible with US laws though.
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