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What is the small web? (2020)

ar.al

61–70 of 126 posts

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#61
For small web to exist all fiber ISPs need to provide fixed external IPs and open ports 25, 53 and 80.

Dynamic DNS is a hardcoded rentseeking joke in most routers, they never wanted an open standard for that.

I'm making my own DynDNS but then I now need cloud instances, which is a dependency we should not need.

Act accordingly in your local jurisdiction.

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#62
post #37

I generally agree with this article, but ... Small Web applications and sites are single tenant. That means that one server hosts one application that serves just one person: you. I feel like people forgot that shared hosting exists (e.g. Dreamhost, or Nearly Free Speech). One computer can serve tons of websites! It can serve multiple Hacker News spikes at once. And the site doesn't even need to be in a virtual machi…

Many people forgot about lamp stacks, or it really entered the wayside. Then again people push/deploy LEMUR stacks now. https://www.nginx.com/blog/introducing-the-lemur-stack-and-a...

But agree on people not knowing shell, even cloud shell on azure/aws - people like to touch things and really enjoy the UI for setting up networking rules, load balancers and more.

Still so much fun, cgi - php and apache in general, the mid 00's were an exciting time were you could do so many things. I enjoyed hosting a website on port 80 from my residential cable/roadrunner connection and editing live pages and seeing it reflect instantly (sure you could just do localhost, but back then even port 25 and such were open, easily letting you run your own mail server and more.)

But the fastest way to get a page on the web nowadays would be github pages, you can do it in less than 10 mins, but I guess if you have a server already imaged, you can do "sudo apt-get install lamp-server" and get started that way.

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#63
post #37

I generally agree with this article, but ... Small Web applications and sites are single tenant. That means that one server hosts one application that serves just one person: you. I feel like people forgot that shared hosting exists (e.g. Dreamhost, or Nearly Free Speech). One computer can serve tons of websites! It can serve multiple Hacker News spikes at once. And the site doesn't even need to be in a virtual machi…

Containerization solves 99% of those problems and more, such as not having to worry about conflicting dependencies, share of common resources, etc.

I would say shared hosting is now more popular than ever, with a twist: similar to the shift that has happened from multi-user mainframes to personal computers to ubiquitous computing (ie individuals having multiple computers), self-hosters are also now hosting not one but many websites/apps per server.

I am not sure how the status quo is different from your suggestion, or rather, how your suggestion is an improvement over that?

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#64
SQLite author is an avid Tcl user and he recently introduced a small, secure and modern CGI based web application called wapp [1],[2]. I think this small web concept proposal is excellent fit for wapp.

Coincidently, a few days back there was an HN post on a novel backend-less web application using SQLite for off-line friendly apps [3]. Combination of small web and local-first software will probably a new killer feature of the Internet in the near future [4].

[1] Wapp - A Web-Application Framework for TCL:

https://wapp.tcl.tk/home

[2] EuroTcl2019: Wapp - A framework for web applications in Tcl (Richard Hipp):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmgOlizq-Ms

[3] Using the SQLite-over-HTTP “hack” to make back end-less, offline-friendly apps:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29758613

[4] Local-First Software: You Own Your Data, in spite of the Cloud:

https://martin.kleppmann.com/papers/local-first.pdf

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#65
post #61

For small web to exist all fiber ISPs need to provide fixed external IPs and open ports 25, 53 and 80. Dynamic DNS is a hardcoded rentseeking joke in most routers, they never wanted an open standard for that. I'm making my own DynDNS but then I now need cloud instances, which is a dependency we should not need. Act accordingly in your local jurisdiction.

Long term you're probably right, but I think tunneling services[0] like Cloudflare tunnel or my own boringproxy are going to be what we use for the next 10 years or so.

We're going to have to prove that self-hosting is useful before people start demanding ipv6, public static IPs, and decent upload speeds from their ISPs.

[0]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#67
post #32

While I'm not sure about some of the half-said political attitude in this post, I do strongly believe in what the author is getting at, and am also building a company for "the Small Web". 1 I've been working on an essay for quite awhile now on a similar topic: what does a decentralized web actually look like? If Big Cloud is an empire-sized industry and Blockchain is a wildly re-engineered approach to solving the cen…

Yep. I think that kubesail's RPi + tunneling approach is essentially the way forward today. It's what I'm banking on in my projects as well.

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#68
post #61

For small web to exist all fiber ISPs need to provide fixed external IPs and open ports 25, 53 and 80. Dynamic DNS is a hardcoded rentseeking joke in most routers, they never wanted an open standard for that. I'm making my own DynDNS but then I now need cloud instances, which is a dependency we should not need. Act accordingly in your local jurisdiction.

Long term you're probably right, but I think tunneling services[0] like Cloudflare tunnel or my own boringproxy are going to be what we use for the next 10 years or so. We're going to have to prove that self-hosting is useful before people start demanding ipv6, public static IPs, and decent upload speeds from their ISPs. [0]: https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling

Tunneling increases latency. Seen that the final medium/media is a 3D action MMO we don't have time for that latency.

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#69
post #4

I don't see how Site.js is any different than what he describes as "big web". So you create your own website and host it on a server. That's always been possible. What am I missing?

They use the word big the same way people started saying Big Pharma. To put people selfhosting at home in opposition of using huge companies.

Re: What is the small web? (2020)

#70
while operating the server is the full thing, shared hosting is sensibly doable for most if not all people taking part in the internet.

It's cumbersome application stacks that make hosting a part time job and scare the hell out of laypeople. Disclaimer: I evangelize single-file static monoliths like https://demo.mro.name/shaarligo

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