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ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

reuters.com

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Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#151

Post by marban »

tyingq wrote: post #59
Spooky23 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at a facility with experimental lithography machines. One of the nasties looked like water, but would pass through your skin and melt your bones. Fun.

Hydrofluoric acid, though I don't think it melts your bones in a dramatic/fast way. It seems to be partially so dangerous because it doesn't "burn" right away, and as you say, is absorbed quickly in skin. So you might not rinse it off quickly. "Piranha solution" (sulfuric acid, water, and hydrogen peroxide) is closer to what tv/movies portray hydrofluoric acid being like. That is, being able to disappear a body in it…

So that might be the kinda stuff they used to get rid of all the bodies in The Blacklist.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#152

Post by siva7 »

kragen wrote: post #132
kragen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This smear could not be further from the truth. China has singlehandedly (to the extent that a billion people can be considered a "single hand") dropped the cost of solar energy from five times as expensive as fossil fuels to half as expensive as fossil fuels in only ten years, an innovation that will probably stop global warming and usher in an unprecedented age of energy abundance starting about eight years from no…

In a now-deleted comment, "selimthegrim" posted, "Yes, let's talk more about their vaccine with 50% efficacy pre-Delta. Do you see other countries clamoring for it?" "saberience" followed up with, "The Chinese vaccine is totally shit though in terms of efficacy compared to other vaccines, and in fact, where I live the Chinese vaccines aren't accepted any longer if you need to travel etc." Do you mean Sinovac CoronaVa…

That’s slightly misleading. Most Chinese are vaccinated with CoronaVac whose protection is far behind against the Omnicron variant compared with SpikeVax or Corminaty that is being administered in NA and EU. That’s the reason why the chinese vaccine isn’t acknowledged in the EU as a full vaccination with all travel implications.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#153

Post by wumpus »

One of the fun parts of working in Silicon Valley is that there's... industrial stuff everywhere. At one office building, not only did we have the usual fire evacuation plan, but we had extra instructions because of one of our neighbors, who had storage tanks with the usual fab chemicals. Yow.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#154

Post by siva7 »

kragen wrote: post #136
saberience wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese vaccine is totally shit though in terms of efficacy compared to other vaccines, and in fact, where I live the Chinese vaccines aren't accepted any longer if you need to travel etc.

Strangely enough, I had thoroughly rebutted your first claim and the implications of the second in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29792057 before you wrote your comment. I have now updated the comment to quote yours as well and to include additional evidence.

You have not rebutted any of his claims in your lengthy post which i replied to.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#155

Post by Someone »

dathinab wrote: post #12

Berlin news (rbb) say that Many things are still unclear including: - how big the damage is - how long it takes to operate again - how it was possible to happen/how it happend The linked article basically says the same.

So does their press release: https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2022/fire-incide...

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#156

Post by throwawaylinux »

sudosysgen wrote: post #140
throwawaylinux wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's very debatable. Maybe you are taking all the improvements China has made in construction, manufacturing and nuclear industry, and assigning them an 'innovation value' of zero. I'm not. > Maybe you are assigning non-zero innovation to exploiters of gig economy like Deliveroo. Also no.

In that case, Chinese innovation and efficiency in manufacturing alone rivals most other kinds in the world - it's truly a marvel for a country to be able to pay it's factory worker a higher wage than the average wage of several EU countries while actually doing the manufacturing at an integer fraction of the cost. That takes a massive amount of innovation that no country in the world is able to match. The value of t…

Sure. I didn't say China has done nothing impressive (although it's emissions intensity of manufacturing and other environmental and labor rights records are horrible, which takes a some of the shine off its manufacturing for me, but that blame is equally on western governments and corporations who conspired to circumvent the environmental and labor standards demanded by their populations by farming them out to totalitarian dictatorships but that's a different story). But it's bite does not match its bark when it comes to developing and inventing new ideas and technology.

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#157

Post by olliej »

wombatpm wrote: post #90
olliej wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

probably hydrofluoric acid? I worked at IGNS in NZ and they used it for dissolving rocks. Many warning signs. [edit: to clarify I mean safety warning signs, not warning signs of being in contact with it. My assumption is excruciating agony which would be a good indicator :D]

HF keeps regenerating itself until it hits bone and forms calcium floride. Get exposed to enough of it and it will pull the calcium out of your cells, stopping muscles, heart beats, and neuron firing.

Pure HF is a gas and can be inhaled. It does bad things, Derek Lowe has a write up: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-tou...

I'm not sure what concentration IGNS was using it in as I'm mercifully a computer person, but I had a friend who worked in their labs and took me through them one time :D

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#158

Post by unethical_ban »

jhugo wrote: post #108
unethical_ban wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earlier today I was thinking about this positively. None of my ideas are original, but some anti-corporatism thought struck a chord today. Why do we rely on dictatorships and unstable countries for critical infrastructure? Why do we rely on slave labor overseas for such basics as textiles when we could make it here? It isn't "markets" that are wrong altogether, but there is something destabilizing and unethical about…

> Why do we rely on slave labor overseas for such basics as textiles when we could make it here? Calling it slave labour is a great sound bite but glosses over the wide variety in working conditions "overseas", and the fact that trade has vastly improved conditions in many such "overseas" countries. I have broadly the opposite view about supply chains and globalisation; the inter-reliance of countries and the trade i…

Yes, good counterpoint. And to the other poster, yes, the EU was apparently designed with this point explicitly in mind. However, the EU countries are on the same order of magnitude of wealth.

Is there any point at which we say "it is wrong to remove wealth from my country, put a fraction of it into working conditions unthinkable in my country, and let the owners of the means of production pocket the rest"? Shouldn't we mandate US-like living conditions and safety regulations if we are going to ethically export labor?

Re: ASML reports fire at its Berlin factory

#160

Post by throwawaylinux »

sudosysgen wrote: post #146
throwawaylinux wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are reasons they might not, and that is that the rest of the world also has time and money. China is not infinite. Catching up is definitely a lot easier and yes it does take time, but it's not a given. They've been trying to catch up with jet engines for almost as long as the west or Russia have been working on them, certainly would have out-spent the Russians by a wide margin on the effort. So far unable to m…

The Chinese have been seriously trying to catch up in turbofan engines only since 1986. They are now far enough ahead as to be very comparable to the Russians. They are nowhere even near to having spent as much as the Russians in resources. You forget that the economy of the USSR was a massive powerhouse, that allocated absolutely massive incestments in military technology. The Chinese, on the other hand, acrually ar…

No they have been seriously trying before then, it's just that they had failed and were somewhat covered by USSR. Even if we take that date, 40 years and countless actual engines to study and they're not even there yet!

> They are nowhere even near to having spent as much as the Russians in resources. You forget that the economy of the USSR was a massive powerhouse, that allocated absolutely massive incestments in military technology.

China is far bigger than USSR ever was, and has been for a while, it also has massive military investments and has always had far more people it could China is absolutely massive in terms of population it can bring to task. So I doubt this. USSR had a pretty large GDP by the end of it yes, but just looking at that is the same mistake as just looking at China's GDP now -- it was not always that large.

> The Chinese, on the other hand, acrually aren't incesting as much money on these technologies as one would think. [etc]

Well I don't think anybody actually knows what exactly they are investing other than they've clearly wanted competitive engines for 60-70 years. But either way this matches what I say about the noise coming from China not really matching the results coming from them, in terms of innovation and developing new technology.

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