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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#541

Post by protastus »

justinator wrote: post #275
kjaftaedi wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had a fully functional lab though, it just wasn't using Theranos' devices. This is what they did to Wallgreens, they sold them on the idea that they would have theranos machines in-store, but instead what they did was do IV blood draws (calling it a comparison check) .. and then would just process the samples the same way as everyone else using standard equipment. People were getting good results because Therano…

I believe they also reverse engineered a lot of the third party machines, in an attempt to make them work the way they wanted to. That's... that's bad.

Emphasis on attempt.

After failing to produce their own reagents and hardware, Theranos pivoted to using off-the-shelf Siemens hardware and reagents (purchased through a shell company) and dramatically diluting the blood samples to make good on the "single drop of blood" customer promise.

This would've been an impressive feat of reverse engineering, software eating the world, IF IT WORKED. But it didn't. Results couldn't even pass internal audits and the FDA forced Theranos to invalidate ~1 million test results when they found what was going on.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#542

Post by EZ-Cheeze »

sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

That's hilarious and cool. You got a list of desirable brands? Off the top of my head I can only think of Enron, Lehman Brothers and Theranos.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#543

Post by topaz0 »

kragen wrote: post #396
justinator wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they also reverse engineered a lot of the third party machines, in an attempt to make them work the way they wanted to. That's... that's bad.

Reverse engineering is an important right that is protected by centuries of patent and trade secret law in the US and many other countries. It's fundamental to innovation, even though non-innovative bad people like Theranos also do it. Reverse engineering is not bad, and it is dismaying that someone posting on a site called "Hacker News" would think so.

I think "reverse engineering" in the gp was just an ill-considered choice of word. What they are describing doesn't really have anything to do with reverse engineering -- it's just using the devices in a way that will not produce the desired reliability of results. The fact that their methods differed from what the manufacturer recommends would not be a problem if they could prove that the false positive/false negative rates were up to the relevant standards.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#544

Post by runeks »

droidno9 wrote: post #521
tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

Don't discount the possibility that she'll have her sentence commuted by a future President. Look at the roster of political heavyweights that she was able to attract to the company. It wouldn't surprise me if one or more of these people still have an affinity for her and, at the right time, throw some good words in the President's ears on her behalf.

This disgusts me. The president should not have the power to free anyone from prison. If the laws are broken then (attempt to) change those, but otherwise you’re just saying “yeah, you’re guilty, but I like you so you don’t need to serve your time like everyone else”.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#545

Post by BoardsOfCanada »

alanh wrote: post #403
rossdavidh wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't really being charged with the stuff about patients, in part I think because the communication between Holmes and investors was direct, whereas Holmes was not personally communicating with the patients. Basically, the prosecutors went for the charges that were easier to prove. If Theranos still existed as a company, it would doubtless be getting buried under a blizzard of charges relating to how Theranos,…

> [She wasn’t] really being charged with [wire fraud with regard to] patients Unless the word "really" is doing some heavy lifting here, this is incorrect. There were multiple counts directly and specifically related to defrauding patients. These counts came back not guilty, but they were, in fact, charged, and customers testified in court in support of these charges.

The articles says "This case was specifically about what Holmes told Theranos investors, although her lies also impacted partners and patients" which I took as the patients claims were not part of this trial, but maybe they were?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#546

Post by unkulunkulu »

jen20 wrote: post #283
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

I've been reading Dorothy Atkins' live tweet coverage of the trial since day 1, and it gives a blow by blow account of it. It starts at [1], and runs all the way up until the verdict. Strongly recommended. [1]: https://twitter.com/doratki/status/1435590320897478657

Great source! Thank you!

For those stuck at the end of first day coverage the way I found is: type «from:doratki day 2» in search

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#547

Post by travelhead »

Elizabeth could have saved herself many of these charges by telling investors she was pivoting to using 3rd party testing devices, reducing the number of tests, and transitioning to a business model involving venous blood drawing as a service with lower costs and better branding. Instead, she decided to continue to lie to investors even though she knew her tech didn’t work as she represented.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#548

Post by Ekaros »

mdoms wrote: post #340
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Ok I'm not American so perhaps my perspective is different... More than 10 years would be utterly barbaric. The 65 years mentioned in another comment chain would be well beyond the pale. I'm no fan of Holmes, but what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

10 years for 145 million seems cheap. I believe in linear sentencing. The time in prison should linearly scale with amount of damages done. Stealing 1000 vs 100 should result in 10x sentence. Stealing million vs ten thousand an hundred x.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#549

Post by unkulunkulu »

unkulunkulu wrote: post #546
jen20 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading Dorothy Atkins' live tweet coverage of the trial since day 1, and it gives a blow by blow account of it. It starts at [1], and runs all the way up until the verdict. Strongly recommended. [1]: https://twitter.com/doratki/status/1435590320897478657

Great source! Thank you! For those stuck at the end of first day coverage the way I found is: type «from:doratki day 2» in search

For day 2 in particular you want the sep 14 tweet, the nov one is day 2 of Holmes testimony

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#550

Post by yobert »

abakker wrote: post #160
sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

I've got two beer glasses from WeWork that say "glass half full" on them. They make me laugh every single time I see them.

I have a WeWork shirt that says "The Future Is Awesome". I used to hate it but now I love it :D
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