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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#521

Post by droidno9 »

tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

Don't discount the possibility that she'll have her sentence commuted by a future President. Look at the roster of political heavyweights that she was able to attract to the company. It wouldn't surprise me if one or more of these people still have an affinity for her and, at the right time, throw some good words in the President's ears on her behalf.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#522

Post by helsinkiandrew »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

“Everything is securities fraud”.

I can’t find details of the specific wire fraud charges that she was found guilty of, but it is far easier to find and prove technical breeches of law (documents showing X was claimed to investors to obtain money when other documents show it wasn’t true) than proving intent or knowledge by the accused beforehand.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#523

Post by [deleted] »

amirkdv wrote: post #518
harha wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder how much of the rapidly established covid testing infrastructure around the world delivers actual results. Fun fact: In some places like Singapore you don't even get the chance to test again to verify the result, you just serve your time in quarantine and then get back your "safe" status.

Except for PCR has been around for decades and its basic principles are taught in first year molecular biology courses. Whereas Theranos' newfangled secret "innovation" was ... well, a secret throughout.

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#524

Post by nopenopenopeno »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Juries are not the brightest bunch. Anyone with even the most fleeting ability for critical thought can avoid jury duty. This is by design, of course.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#525

Post by nimazeighami »

sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

It’s not totally defunct yet but I saved a bunch of super rare Magic Leap swag exactly for people like you lol

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#526

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

tptacek wrote: post #255
seehafer wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From former AUSA, and current white-collar defense attorney Ken White: "She faces a max of 65 years (3x20 + 1x5). And it's not at all clear she'll do less than 20." Apparently the sentences will not necessarily be served concurrently. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1478170494130003976?s=20

Yeah, that's a surprising thing for him to say, since he's generally one of the loudest voices against this "add up the sentences" stuff. The grouping rules are in the sentencing guidelines too! Go look!

He was just responding to this paragraph in the NPR article:

> Holmes' sentencing date has not yet been set. But she faces the maximum penalty of 20 years behind bars, though legal experts say she will likely face a lesser punishment.

That is, he wasn't arguing that she will serve the max of 65, just that the max is much higher than what NPR reported.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#527

Post by alanh »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #522
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

“Everything is securities fraud”. I can’t find details of the specific wire fraud charges that she was found guilty of, but it is far easier to find and prove technical breeches of law (documents showing X was claimed to investors to obtain money when other documents show it wasn’t true) than proving intent or knowledge by the accused beforehand.

Money Stuff reader detected (Me too)

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#528

Post by nroach »

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #524
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Juries are not the brightest bunch. Anyone with even the most fleeting ability for critical thought can avoid jury duty. This is by design, of course.

Some people choose to serve on juries out of a sense of civic responsibility and don’t seek exclusion.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#529

Post by nojs »

mehrshad wrote: post #459
sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

A colleague of mine was contracted by one of several firms tasked with liquidating Theranos' Newark facilities back in Aug 2018. I took the opportunity to grab the equivalent of $15,000 of tools, furniture, scientific equipment, and of course, swag. All legally - liquidators are tasked with clearing the site of everything by a set time. Had free reign throughout the facility for two days, scavenging through 200k sqft…

Classic pics, thanks for sharing. I’d love to see the full quote in the first photo. It almost reminds me of Office Space.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#530

Post by ghshephard »

harha wrote: post #382
ghshephard wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably for the best back in populations of close to 0 community incidence, low acquired immunity, and prior to the vaccines being available. Better to have a few hundred (few thousand?) people incorrectly spend time in quarantine, than to have community spread results in people/businesses being locked down.

That's the state right now with almost all of the population vaccinated. I don't think it's for the best, it ignores any other medical conditions and offers no way to double check a result that could come from a dodgy test center.

I think once their is some population immunity, that you start to put more effort into confirming people really are infectious. It's partially why I don't think the CDC rules about not requiring a test after the fifth day really matters in most places in the United States - 20+% of people in the general population are already infected in places like New York. Wearing a mask for 5 days after quarantining for 5 days, while not ideal - ensures that our medical and logistic and other critical systems keep working for the next 3-4 weeks.
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