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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#371

Post by nakedshorts »

mdoms wrote: post #340
metadat wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully she'll get more, SV could use a good example. Otherwise it signals that wantrepeneurs can keep doing it with minimal repercussions.

Ok I'm not American so perhaps my perspective is different... More than 10 years would be utterly barbaric. The 65 years mentioned in another comment chain would be well beyond the pale. I'm no fan of Holmes, but what good does it serve to lock up non violent criminals for decades?

You do realize actual patients got completely wrong results on their blood tests, thereby potentially jeopardizing their ongoing treatment for pretty serious conditions? How is it a "non-violet" crime when we're talking about potentially killing patients due to fraud?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#372

Post by ghshephard »

harha wrote: post #349
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Makes me wonder how much of the rapidly established covid testing infrastructure around the world delivers actual results. Fun fact: In some places like Singapore you don't even get the chance to test again to verify the result, you just serve your time in quarantine and then get back your "safe" status.

Probably for the best back in populations of close to 0 community incidence, low acquired immunity, and prior to the vaccines being available. Better to have a few hundred (few thousand?) people incorrectly spend time in quarantine, than to have community spread results in people/businesses being locked down.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#373

Post by dylan604 »

Ansil849 wrote: post #348
dylan604 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I always find it interesting to learn what obscure things folks collect. A buddy of mine has a similar fascination with picking things up from defunct companies, specializing in film/video post production companies. One of the items he picked up was a standard banker's box. Inside were a pile of CD-Rs which turned out to be the entire digital back up of an unfinished 3D animated feature. The entire recordings of the…

Wow, that's so fun to stumble upon a veritable treasure chest like that. Were there any big names involved in the unfinished film?

There were actors you'd recognize the names of, but not sure they would qualify as A-list (at least at the time it was recorded). I'm just not able to recall who they were. That was 15-ish years ago, and it was only a story told over a lunch. Not something that made it to long term memory.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#374

Post by walrus01 »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #240
walrus01 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole bre-x saga really amazes some Americans when I explain the depths of fraud that have historically existed in AB and BC small cap mining stocks... For the longest time the historical Vancouver stock exchange, vsx, was known as something like the fraud capital of North America. All of that is before we even get into the ugly history of some Canadian mining companies that have got into bed with non-democratic…

Never heard of this, reading the wiki on bre-x now... " ...one of the five women who considered themselves his wife... " This is some serious drama. Have you got any reading you can recommend on the topic? I recently bought "The Prize" to catch up on my oil & gas history, perhaps there is a sibling book for minerals?

as I recall several Canadian journalists wrote books on it. It was also extensively covered in the western provinces' newspapers and national papers (the globe and mail, etc) at the time.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#376

Post by andrei_says_ »

rossdavidh wrote: post #312
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

They weren't really being charged with the stuff about patients, in part I think because the communication between Holmes and investors was direct, whereas Holmes was not personally communicating with the patients. Basically, the prosecutors went for the charges that were easier to prove. If Theranos still existed as a company, it would doubtless be getting buried under a blizzard of charges relating to how Theranos,…

What happened to the people working for Holmes/Theranos who were doing the legwork of systematically and knowingly defrauding patients?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#377

Post by ClumsyPilot »

dathinab wrote: post #134
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

> defrauding patients about their test results Because und test results where in general correctish, they where just not gotten in exactly the way it was claimed, which was also not noticable less reliable or anything. And what the user bought was the test result. As far as I understood, with my very limited understanding of US law it seems hard to sue as a consumer as you where deceived but not hurt/damaged in any w…

"test results where in general correctish"

"we gave you treatmemt for wrong type of cancer, close enought!"

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#378

Post by [deleted] »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #135
sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

I am also a fucked company swag collector and Theranos has been my white whale since 2015/early 2016. Now it’s all knockoffs. I wish you luck in your search!

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#379

Post by chihuahua »

simplicio wrote: post #306
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Just going by Carryous podcast, it seems like there was a lot more hard evidence (emails, transcripts, texts, etc) that she was knowingly lying to investors. On the other hand, I don't think there was any hard proof that she didnt know the results delivered by her labs (which were using third party machines, albeit ones being used improperly), were bunk.

I feel like John Carreyrou deserves a medal for exposing the entire scam. First in WSJ articles and then in his book, which is a great read. It's incredible how much trouble this caused for him when Theranos tried to fight him.

Who knows how long the scam would have continued without him, and how many more people would have gotten bogus test results.

If Tiger Woods can get a presidential medal of freedom for playing golf, it seems like it's the least they could do for Carreyrou.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#380

Post by jasonfarnon »

pvg wrote: post #368
MarkMc wrote: post #347

Someone mentioned that Holmes will likely get a relatively light sentence because she is an attractive white woman. I've read there is good evidence that black people get harsher sentences than white people and men get harsher sentences than women, other factors being equal. I suspect there is also evidence attractive people get lighter sentences than ugly people. The current system seems like a clear-cut violation o…

Because there's a sixth as well as a fourteenth amendment

what's the relevance of those amendments? are you misreading the right to confrontation?
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