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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#251

Post by r0p3 »

nemo44x wrote: post #177
paxys wrote: post #140

Guilty of taking a billion+ dollars from rich and influential people who couldn't bother to do the bare minimum due diligence into their investments due to greed and FOMO. Not guilty of endangering thousands of lives by running fraudulent and inaccurate tests under sub-par lab conditions. Our justice system is such a farce.

Our justice system works well. You are confusing your own emotional feelings for what you would have liked to see with the reality of what was able to be proven without reasonable doubt. The type of populist mob justice you allude* to is not just at all. *(Fixed grammar error specified below)

"allude" is to imply while "elude" is the evade

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#252

Post by schoen »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #180
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Iirc with Fyre Festival the dude got convicted of wire fraud for defrauding an investor, not for selling tickets to a sham festival. The joke was, screw the small people, that's fine, screw a rich investor, that's when you go to jail...

"Everything is securities fraud"

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-26/everyt...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#253

Post by nyjah »

sharkweek wrote: post #25

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

That's funny. I was just talking a friend of mine the other day that is printing a bunch of swag gear for Nikola Motors. I would guess he doesn't know the history of Nikola Motors and I didn't say anything, but I was thinking, how much swag does a potential scam company need?

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#254

Post by olliej »

adventured wrote: post #238
olliej wrote: post #86

So… just defrauding the rich investors, nothing on the people who’s blood she claimed to be testing.

She didn't significantly injure those people - she misled consumers about the technology but not the results. They did the actual testing on other legitimate machines. The wire fraud charges were by far the much better target.

They used legitimate machines, but were among other things watering down the samples and using lower volumes of blood than necessary for correct and accurate operation.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#255

Post by tptacek »

seehafer wrote: post #187
tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

From former AUSA, and current white-collar defense attorney Ken White: "She faces a max of 65 years (3x20 + 1x5). And it's not at all clear she'll do less than 20." Apparently the sentences will not necessarily be served concurrently. https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1478170494130003976?s=20

Yeah, that's a surprising thing for him to say, since he's generally one of the loudest voices against this "add up the sentences" stuff. The grouping rules are in the sentencing guidelines too! Go look!

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#256

Post by mardifoufs »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #180
jonwachob91 wrote: post #40

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

Iirc with Fyre Festival the dude got convicted of wire fraud for defrauding an investor, not for selling tickets to a sham festival. The joke was, screw the small people, that's fine, screw a rich investor, that's when you go to jail...

It's more that wire fraud can cover pretty much anything, making it a lot easier for the feds to get a conviction. Plus, the charges weren't related to the festival or its investors; it was for a whole different scammy "venture."

I'm not even sure they could be criminally charged for a sham festival since the festival did actually happen. I'd imagine that the whole thing turning out to be a complete wreck would probably be something that could be handled in a civil case.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#257

Post by holografix »

wombatmobile wrote: post #43

> Holmes was the poster child of Silicone Valley hubris Holmes was convicted of fraud, which is a crime. If hubris was a crime, the meek would inherit the earth, and Silicone Valley real estate would be affordable.

Let’s not confuse arrogance with strength. Plenty of royalty lost their heads based on that assumption.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#258

Post by philosopher1234 »

nemo44x wrote: post #177
paxys wrote: post #140

Guilty of taking a billion+ dollars from rich and influential people who couldn't bother to do the bare minimum due diligence into their investments due to greed and FOMO. Not guilty of endangering thousands of lives by running fraudulent and inaccurate tests under sub-par lab conditions. Our justice system is such a farce.

Our justice system works well. You are confusing your own emotional feelings for what you would have liked to see with the reality of what was able to be proven without reasonable doubt. The type of populist mob justice you allude* to is not just at all. *(Fixed grammar error specified below)

If “proven beyond a reasonable doubt” keeps leading to bad outcomes, maybe that’s not the right standard.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#259

Post by btmiller »

avirut wrote: post #127
tptacek wrote: post #78

Time to kibitz on the likely sentence! You can get the federal sentencing guidelines here: https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/guidelines-manu... They're long and mostly not relevant except for the sections pertaining to Holmes conduct. Here's the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/page/file/1135066/download Holmes was found guilty of one 18 USC 1349 charge, and 3 18 USC 1343 charges; the 1343's s…

Does multiple counts served concurrently mean that the effective sentence is just the longest individual sentence? Also: I'm seeing from various websites that the maximum time-left-to-serve for minimum security (federal prison camp) is 10 years, but nothing definitive - [1] is the most in-depth but only specifies this requirement for male prisoners, whereas other requirements are clearly distinguished between male an…

Look, she is a snake, but if Python can’t have true parallelism, neither should she :P

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#260

Post by user_7832 »

beebmam wrote: post #227

Sending fraudulent people to jail for a long, long time is fundamental to running a healthy society. One of the reasons the US is a decent place to live compared to other countries is because we actually prosecute frauds and criminals here. Let's start seeing some other countries around the world start doing this, like India, Russia, and China. My 80 year old mother was recently tricked into wiring money by Indian sc…

> One of the reasons the US is a decent place to live compared to other countries is because we actually prosecute frauds and criminals here. Let's start seeing some other countries around the world start doing this, like India, Russia, and China.

I'm really not sure fraud is the biggest issue plaguing these countries... corruption is definitely an issue (though the US has in some cases legalized it into lobbying and PACs and the like). It's great that people doing scummy things are held accountable, but are the Sa cklers of Purdue P harma in prison? They've (unarguably) hurt and killed way more than Holmes did, but where's justice for that?

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