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High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#131

Post by aksss »

kurthr wrote: post #127
voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably cor…

How is big ag not representing an efficient market compared to thousands of small disconnected farms? In this sense thinking about efficiency being a measure of how open and accessible information is concerning said market. I can think of a few different pro/con angles to the assertion. Curious what's on your mind.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#132

Post by SavantIdiot »

voakbasda wrote: post #10

As a small farmer, I can tell you: independent small-scale farming is not profitable in any meaningful manner. Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. The food in stores is pretty much all garbage compared to food raised on small farms. It sickens me to see things go this way, but this is the reality that we have created.

Move to Portland, Oregon! There is a huge market here for local farm produce and livestock. During the 2000's, I couldn't find a CSA because all local farms were selling nearly everything to restaurants. In terms of meat production, it is a trend here for gyms to pool resources and purchase entire cows / pigs / lamb. The farm where I (used to) get my milk was 5 miles from my house (I switched off cowmilk)[0], but my poultry and pork and grown and butchered right next to it on another small farm.[1] There are many others, but they are far away [2], [3].

Now I pay 2x-3x for meat compared to the local big-market (or Whole Foods), but meat is supposed to be expensive if raised humanely and sustainably, so I'm OK with that. Plus I like meeting my chickens before eating them. "Portlandia" was not far off.

[0]: http://www.schochdairy.com/

[1]: https://www.marionacres.com/

[2]: https://friendsoffamilyfarmers.org/opn/soggy-feet-enterprise...

[3]: https://www.kookoolanfarms.com/

This is the place for small farmers.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#133

Post by narrator »

LesZedCB wrote: post #4
narrator wrote: post #2

Intentionally destroying the beef market would be a lot of rich people's dream.

can you elaborate? considering we (humanity) are de-sequestering thousands of acres of captured carbon in order to create new cattle farms, i really hope by destroy you don't mean monopolize and grow.

Yes, many rich people would love everyone to be vegan, or at least eat insects instead of meat, mainly for environmental and animal rights reasons.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#134

Post by philipkglass »

CreepGin wrote: post #100
zwieback wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense - you can get everything from trash to exceptional quality food, depending on the store you buy it from. Not disputing your point that small farmers have it hard but on the consumer side there's lots of choice.

> Nonsense - you can get everything from trash to exceptional quality food, depending on the store you buy it from. Not disputing your point that small farmers have it hard but on the consumer side there's lots of choice. When money is of no concern to you, sure. But reality is many people can't even afford to buy organic foods.

Food in general was more expensive before the Green Revolution, back when food usually was organic and came from small farms.

Here's a 1922 document showing American retail prices of food from 1913 to 1920:

https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bl...

Take a look at eggs, for example (page 21 as numbered in scans, 27 in the PDF). In 1920 egg prices fluctuated between $0.528 and $0.924 per dozen. Adjusting that price by consumer price index, it's something like $7.02 to $12.29 per dozen in current dollars. Back then people were forced to produce their own food, spend a larger portion of their income on food, or simply go without. Poverty that would force someone to eat cheap eggs now would force them to eat no eggs back then.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#135

Post by kurthr »

aksss wrote: post #131
kurthr wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the government is actively killing it... they just aren't doing anything about the oligopolies and collusion that have always developed in these sort of situations. That may seem subtle, but many argue that we want to make the government do less to "keep them off our backs". Well, guess what these are the consequences. These markets may be "free", but they are not efficient, in fact they are arguably cor…

How is big ag not representing an efficient market compared to thousands of small disconnected farms? In this sense thinking about efficiency being a measure of how open and accessible information is concerning said market. I can think of a few different pro/con angles to the assertion. Curious what's on your mind.

Big Ag in this case is meat packing. Perhaps you're referring to the largest cattle ranches as well? Demonstrably, profits are going only to the middle men while farmers margins are squeezing to 0 driving them out of business... that will eventually raise actual supply prices once only the largest few "most efficient" ranchers left, but then those prices will be entirely passed on to consumers not the processors/middle men.

So supply prices rise as production falls... to the monopoly maximum marginal profit extracted from the consumer, just as predicted!

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#136

Post by ineedasername »

CreepGin wrote: post #70
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy grass-fed beef from my neighbor. There's no difference as far as I can see. I like to support my neighbor, but there's no magic, no difference cooking, no startling color-change tricks as reported elsewhere in this thread.

We have opposite experiences with pork and poultry. The meat we get from local homesteads are noticeably way better than store bought. Maybe beef is a different story. I don't know... During 2020 summer, we raised 4 peking ducks in our backyard. We gifted some of the processed meat to extended family members. And to this day, they still can't stop talking about how good the meat were.

Is it possible that freshness and lack of freezing are the cause of any difference. (Also I assume local farms do not artificially plump chicken with fluids)

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#137

Post by knuthsat »

markdown wrote: post #124

Anyone interested in this should check out the Just a Few Acres Farm channel on youtube. It's a wonderful, wonderful channel that I've spent hours watching, and I'm not even American. https://www.youtube.com/c/JustaFewAcresFarm?app=desktop

Damn, first video I open is of castrating piglets. Can't believe it's done while the animal is awake and with no sedatives. Brutal.

I'd rather have a farm raising plants than do that kind of stuff.

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#138

Post by aksss »

after_care wrote: post #126
loudmax wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government is actively killing it, by giving away every possible concession to Big Ag. If government were out of the picture would small-scale farmers be better able to compete with Big Ag? If you were making policy, what would you have government do instead?

1. Simplify the tax code for farms under a certain size. Farms basically require itemization for every expense. 2. Right to repair. Seriously, they cannot repair their own equipment. 3. Add legal protections against GMO companies. Or other large private companies. More than a few small farms have be buried in legal bills. 4. Stop putting corn ethanal in gas. Its a poor use of fresh water. It’s provided almost univers…

While not endorsing or rejecting your list completely, I'd just like to point out for others that "innovating regulation" is a thing - to the extent that a large corporation can lobby for new, burdensome regulation that only companies of a certain size can afford to comply with, they create large barriers to entry into markets and crush the margins of smaller organizations. This is the case in all industries, not just farming. Anytime you see a corporation advocating for regulation, the first thought shouldn't be "oh, that's admirable," it should be, "how will this affect their competitive landscape?"

Re: High beef prices and the destruction of independent cattle ranching

#140

Post by sputknick »

I get my beef directly from a farmer (https://www.mountainrunfarm.com/) and he has not raised prices since 2017. If you can buy your beef at least 200 pounds at a time, and ideally a whole beef (~625 pounds) you can get grass fed beef for roughly $4.50-$5.00/pound including processing.
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