Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
I find your comment rather flippant. How about you provide a full, undistracted summary.
I'm not clever enough!
When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
11–20 of 53 posts
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems a little overcooked: to be accredited as a diplomat requires the host country's assent. So Ecuador can't simply say "Mr Assange is our diplomat so you must give him free passage"; the UK govt can simply reject the proposed appointment. As for shooting out the tyres, before contemplating such a reckless and dramatic Michael Bay violation of diplomatic protocol, public safety, and common sense, surely a simpler a…
> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, i…
>...his tormentors will never have to answer to it.
Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. When the truth is out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#13Posted last week here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29723433 TL;DW Guy thinks information should be free. Thinks an informed society is important. Thinks journalistic freedom is necessary for that. Thinks Julian Assange should be free. Video is about the circumstances around the foiling of the plot to get Julian Assange out of the country by means of becoming an Ecuador diplomat. There was a meeting between J…
> including shooting out tires
Thank you for posting the TL;DR @marktucker. It saves everyone watching a video that is no doubt full of pure invented FUD and BS.
Why do I say that ? Because of the "shooting out tires" bit.
1. Its a dumb American thing, no way in hell it would be permitted in the UK .. actually no, to give the yanks their due, I don't event think they would start shooting at tyres randomly on a public street. ;-)
2. Ecuadorian Embassy is in Hans Place, Knightsbridge. Anyone who has ever lived or worked in London will very quickly tell you that (a) Shooting at tyres in that neck of the wood is likely to result in far too many casualties and collateral damage to very expensive assets (b) There is unlikely to be a need to do so because there is both heavy police presence in that neck of the woods AND a lot of vehicular traffic (i.e. no chance for a fast car getaway, you'll end up stuck in traffic sooner or later).
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, i…
>...his tormentors will never have to answer to it. Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. When the truth is out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
> The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
I'd hate to be the cynic in the room, but the actions of various powerful countries has show the opposite.
In general, it seems like if the truth does surface, it's met with general ambivalence and nothing much happens to anyone involved. I'll cop out on concrete examples and just say that I find them too numerous and depressing.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems a little overcooked: to be accredited as a diplomat requires the host country's assent. So Ecuador can't simply say "Mr Assange is our diplomat so you must give him free passage"; the UK govt can simply reject the proposed appointment. As for shooting out the tyres, before contemplating such a reckless and dramatic Michael Bay violation of diplomatic protocol, public safety, and common sense, surely a simpler a…
> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, i…
> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment
Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy.
Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years.
Even Tasers are classed as a weapon requiring specific training prior to issue.
So, for example in London there are about 40,000 officers, only about 7,000 of them are issued with tasers, even fewer of them get to walk around with pistols, and even fewer of them get to drive around in cars with semi-automatics in the boot.
Use of a weapon is taken seriously, if an officer discharges in public, it results in instant referral to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) for independent investigation. This is not with a view of punishing the officer (unless they did wrong, obviously), but with the view of reviewing processes and procedures and whether use of the weapon could have been avoided (or indeed done better).
I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, i…
>...his tormentors will never have to answer to it. Why the defeatist attitude? It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time. When the truth is out, justice will follow. The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
Addressing this feels like how I imagine it would feel to drop a cinderblock on a box of kittens...
> It has been established that the truth will eventually surface with sufficient education, public awareness and time.
Not really, but even in the case where it might be partially true - it would definitely be a non-linear function of time. By that I mean the immediate dispersion of true information would be zero, the mid-point would be the max, and then there would be a long tail of disinformation. The winners write the history, and the historians present the stories based on some criteria - and you can be sure that it isn't objective. Have you ever noticed the way that philosophical teachings, the ones going back thousands of years, all promote some kind of social stratification that favors a ruling class? Plato's Republic being an easy example. Ever wonder why? Hint: it isn't because it reflects some emergent quality of the human condition.
> The world does not operate on a "might is right" model.
Unfortunately it absolutely does, or at least has - forever. I'm pretty confident this is the reason why the common theme for religion is the concept of balancing force that is dependent on faith alone. A universal karma, an afterlife. If justice were the rule of the day then these things wouldn't be needed.
The only thing I see potentially changing any of this is solidly rooted in the cryptoanarchy sphere - because misrepresented math simply doesn't function, halting the propagation of corrupting influence in a way no other system can.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As for shooting out the tyres... This comes up every so often with regard to high speed chases: "Why not just let him go and then make the arrest after things have calmed down? We know where he lives." The answer to that question is very simple: you are operation under the premise that you can accurately predict your target's future actions. You cannot, and it is laughably foolish to think otherwise. This is why, i…
> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years. Even Tasers are classed as a…
> Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy.
The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the non-dominant hand flat on top of the grenade spoon before pulling the pin? I dunno, but I'm sure a bunch of people died not doing it.
> I'll take UK policing over US policing any day of the week.
I'm sure you would, at this moment. But we'll see if that holds given the direction of the trendlines. It is always funny to me when people compare culturally homogenous countries to the US. There is a reason why Japan has such a low crime rate - and it isn't due to gun control.
In any case, it is silly to pretend that the UK isn't dancing to the tune of the US in this case - so pointing to anything the UK may do better is doubly silly.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#18Were those guys in the car likely to be card-carrying CIA operatives or just hired thugs given orders from the CIA/MI6?
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just some private detective paid just over minimum wage to sit there for multiple years and radio in if anything happens.
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
> US military at least, the prevention of prisoner escape is a justification for deadly force regardless of the reason for imprisonment Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. Meanwhile, time for your regular reminder that in the UK policing operates on a consent basis. Overall this basis has served the UK well for the last few hundred years. Even Tasers are classed as a…
> Well, the world is aware that the US tends to have a "shoot first, ask later" policy. The larger point that you seem to have missed being that the US military doesn't do anything without a logical or historical justification (barring cases involving immediate political pressure). They've either thoroughly thought it through or there are a lot of bodies behind the silliest of rules. Why do they insist on putting the…
The UK is pretty culturally diverse. But even if it wasn’t, what would that have to do with policing standards and procedures? In any case, it seems you need adjust at least some of your priors lest you lend yourself to cultural myopia
Re: When WikiLeaks bumped into the CIA: Operation Kudo exposed [video]
#20Were those guys in the car likely to be card-carrying CIA operatives or just hired thugs given orders from the CIA/MI6?
I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't just some private detective paid just over minimum wage to sit there for multiple years and radio in if anything happens.
There's at least 3 fairly muscular dudes in the car