Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

thecentersquare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 600 posts

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#571

Post by netizen-936824 »

austinkhale wrote: post #99
jfim wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> P2P meth For those confused by the P2P acronym as I was, it's apparently a synthesis route that was developed in response to the crackdowns on OTC ephedrine products. It's apparently a lot more pure than the older stuff, at least according to https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/

The Atlantic wrote a really good deep dive piece into the differences recently. Highly recommend reading through it. There are a lot of unknowns about the long term consequences. Anecdotally, people close to me in the mental health industry are really distraught about it. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new...

In my opinion that Atlantic article is far from good. Its a scare piece designed to make the public afraid

Methamphetamine is methamphetamine and there is no "new meth"

It's simply a higher amount of R-meth and less L-meth(the non psychoactive isomer)

Don't believe everything you read

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#572

Post by raxxorrax »

ineedasername wrote: post #304
mlyle wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and it frustrates me to see them framed against another useless tragedy. You know, people need an anchor point for comparison very often. "Holy shit COVID and car crashes are bad, and among younger adults -- believe it or not-- fentanyl is even worse".

Anchoring like that is a problem when it's used to dismiss something: "Eh, more people die from fentanyl, so X isn't so bad" . Which disregards that X may be a new source of increased deaths, not to mention that when X == COVID, the methods needed to mitigate the risk are antithetical to a mindset of "it's no big deal" because that mindset pushes back against taking even some minimal precuations. So, anchoring can he…

But there needs to be a discussion if that short cuircuit is our behavior in light of this. Of course the number could be higher if we didn't react, but I would guess destroying the basis of living for so many people is also quite significant and another "new" thing.

And if this sales tactic would be applied to any security issue you can more or less forget about civil liberties.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#573

Post by sm4rk0 »

FabHK wrote: post #519
sm4rk0 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What data are you citing? There's official data showing the opposite (I personally checked each data point in that graph): https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adult...

You need to compare within narrower age groups. Older people are more likely to be vaccinated and more likely to die. https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2021/11/fact-check-vaccin...

That "fact-checking" is misleading.

The original (official) data shows how likely is someone to die if vaccinated vs unvaccinated. "Rate" part of "Death rate" means the number of deaths is already divided by the population in one of the groups (vaccinated or not), so the size of a group doesn't affect the rate.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#574

Post by sm4rk0 »

gumby wrote: post #417
sm4rk0 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume your opinion is "more vaccinated people => less load on hospitals", but this article hints it could be the opposite.

The article says no such thing, and in fact doesn’t even address that issue. The closest is the following: “It may not all be COVID on their death certificate, but deaths are up just huge, huge numbers.” The person quoted isn’t commenting on hospitals at all. For example my uncle doesn’t have COVID on his death certificate but his doctor says that his case was simple enough that he could have been saved had he been a…

The article quotes an MD: "The number of hospitalizations in the state is now higher than before the COVID-19 vaccine was introduced a year ago"

The person I'm replying to mentioned "hospital overcapacity".

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#575

Post by raxxorrax »

spenrose wrote: post #192

This story [1] (NYT paywall) is clearer IMHO: 1. 600,000 more elderly Americans, or 1 of 100, have died during the Covid epidemic than would have died had the epidemic not occurred. 2. 200,000 more non-elderly Americans, or 1 of 1,400, have died—but that's mostly ages 15-64, so more like 1 in 1,000 adults of working age. 3. The CDC says adult death rates were up 20%. [2] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/us/covi…

2. might be wrong since the age group is manipulative but you haven't corrected enough. This data is a bit harder to get though and may not be available to the US. But data from other countries suggest that a vast majority of cases is in the 60-64 bracket. Sadly many governments choose these questionable grouping and it is fairly misleading.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#576

Post by selimthegrim »

ineedasername wrote: post #497
mlyle wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but with the (possible) decrease in severe cases with Omicron I've seen hints of this argument again. Well, at some point, it's a reasonable argument. Risk isn't going to go to 0. It looks like with vaccination my personal risk is 2-3x influenza, but I may be overstating it. At some point, we're going to just have to give up and assume risks. I'm not routinely wearing masks 3 years from now.

I hope it does end up being true of Omicron, a bit too soon to tell though. It's a little early to tell: We're a month on from the end of November when Omicron really hit our radar and it took a few more weeks to see the really big spike we're in right now. On the national (US) level I don't see much of an uptick in deaths yet (although my own state has a bit of one) but deaths are also a lagging indicator so it may…

Since when is testing required for air travel?

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#577

Post by freyr »

nl wrote: post #554
freyr wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good suggestion. Here are the excess deaths for 25-44 year olds: https://imgur.com/a/b4Pobrh There’s definitely a significant rise in excess deaths among 25-44 year olds coinciding with the Delta peak in August/September. Something interesting though: In the Covid “valley” of June/July, when Covid-related deaths were at a record low nationally, 25-44 year olds still had a ~35% increase in excess deaths. I’d…

It’s quite likely that the timing of 25-44 yo deaths from Covid has a much wider distribution than older age groups. It seems reasonable to speculate that younger people are able survive longer with respiratory problems and probably have less co-morbidities.

Perhaps. But this means that when Covid deaths dropped to ~1,700/week nationally over the summer and 25-44 year olds still had ~800 excess deaths/week, almost half the people dying of Covid-19 in the US were young and nobody was talking about it. Seems unlikely.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#578

Post by softawre »

tomcooks wrote: post #553

451: Unavailable due to legal reasons We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact info@franklinnews.org or call (847) 497-5230. MEH.

Your country gets punished for trying to do the right thing.

Just like some jobs are now hiring in "any state but Colorado", since if they hire in Colorado they have to post salary on the job description.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#579

Post by softawre »

nu11ptr wrote: post #293
FabHK wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could check for excess mortality among vaccinated and unvaccinated people. I think the data is very clear: vaccination does not lead to excess mortality (unlike COVID).

I think that would be very tricky to decouple variables here. The vaccine seems to reduce mortality from COVID, but if the vaccine were killing x% itself, the vaccine would only have to be more effective at saving from COVID than killing for that safety signal to be lost. In short, comparing vaxxed vs unvaxxed mortality alone isn't likely to tell you if you have a vaccine safety signal.

But does it really matter? If Covid is 10% likely to kill you, and the shot is 9% likely to kill you, you'd still get the shot.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#580

Post by MereInterest »

freyr wrote: post #577
nl wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s quite likely that the timing of 25-44 yo deaths from Covid has a much wider distribution than older age groups. It seems reasonable to speculate that younger people are able survive longer with respiratory problems and probably have less co-morbidities.

Perhaps. But this means that when Covid deaths dropped to ~1,700/week nationally over the summer and 25-44 year olds still had ~800 excess deaths/week, almost half the people dying of Covid-19 in the US were young and nobody was talking about it. Seems unlikely.

Excess deaths includes deaths that were directly attributable due to other causes, but may still be indirectly caused by COVID. Suppose I were to break into a dialysis clinic and abscond with half the equipment. If this is an isolated incident, then patients can be sent to other clinics, or dialysis machines brought in. But suppose I were to break into every dialysis clinic and steal half the equipment. In that case, there's no surplus that can be shuffled around, and people would die. The direct cause of death would still be kidney failure, but I would have been the indirect cause.

In the same way, COVID puts pressure on the hospital system as a whole. Nurses who could have been monitoring a post-surgery recovery are instead monitoring ventilators in the COVID wing, or are quarantined after being exposed. The crash cart arrives a little bit slower to a heart attack, because the closest one was already in use. If the available nurses are on longer shifts, that contributes to sleep deprivation, making it easy to miss details that would otherwise have been caught.

This is true across all age groups. As of September, while COVID had 4.6 million direct fatalities, there had been 15 million excess deaths. Determining the final scope of COVID will be a matter of long research, and certainly isn't something that can be resolved in a short internet argument. Dismissing it as "Seems unlikely." when not even comparing between the same same type of measurement seems premature.

[0] https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/09/06/econ-s06.html

Post reply on HN