Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

news.ycombinator.com

111–120 of 383 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#111
The asylum is being run by the inmates.

> constant changes to 'systems that are working fine'

This is the one that annoys me the most. Constantly breaking things that work. Windows 11 is a perfect example, can't think of even 1 compelling reason for it to exist.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#113
post #36
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

Yeah, that's the thing. You can't really fight against results. Putting an annoying modal asking for an email will give you lots of email leads. Sending newsletters will give more returns to the website. Sending desktop notifications whenever there's a new article works and gives more visits. A website that takes 20 seconds to load is not an issue. Advertisements give more than zero moneys. The reason it gives positi…

> an email will give you lots of email

This is why I rarely use the same email address longer than 1 year now or try to manage different accounts for different spam. I just change the password to random crap and forget about that email account, while setting up a new one.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#114
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Then may the people follow your lead. Or not. Either way the market will follow the money.

the market might also follow regulation.

that's how we got clean air and water. Just saying.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#115
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. While technically true in terms of theoretical modelling of a market economy, I don't think that's a fair diagnosis in practice. We…

> normal users have no choice on the matter. The choice to not use shit software is easier than going on a strike and demanding 8h work day instead of 14h. Which our ancestors also did, some died for the cause. I for one, do not use and have not used and especially not payed for user-hostile software, beginning since 2000. It is possible, you dont really have to accept shit or keep on using shit. Everytime that click…

Congratulations on making a decision long before it became a serious problem for users and developing the habit.

The vast majority of people are not like you. Most people succumbed to these practices over a gradual period of a decade and as such are locked-in habit-wise to this with an attention span that is hard-pressed not to focus on the matter.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#116
post #55
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

I am not a cricket. I told you what to do, dont use that software, dont accept the license or terms, uninstall, deactivate, deny. Read a book, go hiking. You arent forced to use shit software.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#117

I've recently been travelling to some fam in Europe and the entire COVID experience is so convoluted and obscene I feel a moral obligation to defraud the private services profiting off of it.

Paying 100 euro for a test at the airport in Dublin when you depart so you can prove you didn't get COVID in the UK when you come back into Ireland 2 days later. No logic or reasoning.

Last time I entered the EU (fully vaxxed) I had to pay $375 for a 24h PCR test in San Francisco because Portugal, unlike most EU countries, was not yet accepting US proof of vaccination.

I was pretty happy to pay “only” 100 EUR for the next one, which was to go between two Schengen countries in August, yay borderless Europe!

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#118
I recently tried to backup my Google Authenticator setup from my smartphone. It's possible to export all secret keys to another smartphone using a QR code, however taking a screenshot is prevented. So how am I supposed to protect myself against device loss or corruption, if I don't have another smartphone to use for the backup (other than taking a picture of the QR code)?

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#119
Some of these are strong, unpopular opinions.

My question in return would be, name me a single company other than Apple ( I am no longer a fan of Apple, but credit where credit's due ) that has a user or product mindset in Silicon Valley, or even border terms, in Tech ( or even non tech )? Excluding startups or companies that are still run by founders.

And so most CEOs are either tech oriented, or business oriented, i.e sales and marketing people. Where are the product people?

> "If you were a product person at IBM or Xerox, so you make a better copier or computer. So what? When you have monopoly market share, the company's not any more successful.

>So the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, and they end up running the companies. And the product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products. The product sensibility and the product genius that brought them to that monopolistic position gets rotted out by people running these companies that have no conception of a good product versus a bad product." - Steve Jobs

The first part isn't easy to understand by non-product people. If a company is making record profits. Why are they not successful? What are the inventive to further improve user experience? Or creating a better product? At the expense of additional R&D for zero bottom line benefits.

Here is another Steve Jobs quote.

>"Manage the top line: your strategy, your people, and your products, and the bottom line will follow.

>"You can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards."

Most business have their eyes on their bottom line, they forgot their culture, their product, and only cares about profits and revenue. It is the moment you start designing a product for your bottom line and not because you want to build a better product which may or may not be successful. ( There are plenty of flops at Apple )

The leadership, direction and strategy has to come from the Top. Which is contrary to popular belief that "execution eats strategy for breakfast". The original quote from Peter Drunker was “Culture eats strategy for breakfast”, but Silicon Valley and VCs in the early 10s only wants their startup to execute.

Finally, something I have suspected for long but recently became my conclusion in the past 5-6 years. Relating to the last part of the first quote

>"Have no conception of a good product versus a bad product."

Or Taste. Something Silicon Valley, Tech or VC refuse to admit, and PG made a somewhat rebuttal of his past self in recent blog post.

I call these the Pepla people. Who cant taste the difference between Pepsi and Coca Cola. Then there are people who can taste the difference but cant tell which one is which, and at the very top end is someone can taste the difference between Coca Cola from different part of the world and bottling technique.

There are plenty of people wearing a product person badge, but Good taste is rarely a common thing among them. It can not be accurately measured, and hence its unpopularity in Tech. You cant do A/B testing. You have to somewhat rely on your intuition.

>"Intuition is a very powerful thing, more powerful than intellect, in my opinion". - Steve Jobs

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#120
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. While technically true in terms of theoretical modelling of a market economy, I don't think that's a fair diagnosis in practice. We…

> normal users have no choice on the matter. The choice to not use shit software is easier than going on a strike and demanding 8h work day instead of 14h. Which our ancestors also did, some died for the cause. I for one, do not use and have not used and especially not payed for user-hostile software, beginning since 2000. It is possible, you dont really have to accept shit or keep on using shit. Everytime that click…

Let's consider a basic example: How can you justify not using Microsoft Office? Yes LibreOffice is there and works 95% of the time, but the remaining 5% are not completely useless parts of the software.

It's same for most of the user-hostile software. Alternatives are not as intuitive, easy to use, or easy to find. Also, free software is not guaranteed to be sustained or be in front of the pack.

I use Linux, and free software to the most extent I can use, but there are some closed source stuff which is expensive but is soundly ahead when compared to open source alternatives. I can break the sweat and write a similar code, but how can I make sure that it's sustained when it has a A/GPLv3 license?

Post reply on HN