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Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#71

Post by zkldi »

sigmaprimus wrote: post #2

I agree with most everything you have said but wonder if it is just the internet or everywhere these days. I recently went through a McDonalds drive thru for the first time in a very long time and felt a longing for the old menu boards that had items and prices clearly listed instead of these TV screens with all the items and prices scattered about like a teenage girls dream collage. I walked into a new BestBuy store…

> There was a movie where a guy got out of prison after a lengthy sentence and his words seem to ring more true to me each and every day: "The world got itself in a damn hurry and it seems there is no place now for a feeble old man like me"

Shawshank?

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#72

Post by 5560675260 »

rini17 wrote: post #55
antocv wrote: post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Don't like something? Take your money elsewhere, and make sure to tell why on social media, even if you don't have large following. Besides making bad practices unnoticeably less profitable this normalises caring about this. In the future we will see more business will see practices that you like as advantageous.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#73

Post by astennumero »

I've seen instances where improvements and updates are made to existing systems that works just fine. The reason being optimization of resources like time, manpower and money.

But these improvements create new problems in the system that requires another iteration of improvements and updates.

It either that or the intuitive nature of the system is compromised. This creates a very unpleasant experiences that makes no sense.

Another important reason that comes to mind is unrealistic expectations from the IT industry. I've seen customers asking for features that adds no benefit to their business and they want it just because it's out there and they want in. Customers these days want everything. They want an amazing UI, light speed data transmission, quantum level security, and a sophisticated technology stack. They want all this in 1 month. The IT industry is so dense in countries like India that even though these people know this isn't possible, they still promise a product to the customer for fear of losing a valuable business venture.

This inturn results in a half cooked product that seems to have everything the customer requested but whose stability and usability isn't vouched for. More and more updates are promised to solve the issues with the product since "this is an iterative evolving solution".

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#74

Post by Mordisquitos »

antocv wrote: post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

> Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests.

While technically true in terms of theoretical modelling of a market economy, I don't think that's a fair diagnosis in practice. Were early-19th century English workers forced to take jobs with 6-day working weeks and >12 hours a day? Technically no. But did they have a choice? And was there an adequate incentive to even provide such a choice?

Of course nobody "is forced" to use dark-pattern software, but as it stands today, normal users have no choice on the matter. I would argue that potential user-friendly-non-dark-pattern competitors are unable to break into the market of the Microsoft-Apple-Google oligopoly not because user hostility and dark-patterns are in of themselves a competitive advantage nor of any economic value as a whole. Instead, I think that the imbalance of power between consumer and industry, network effects, and the disproportionate capital investment needed to disrupt the current market mean that no alternative can take any significant hold.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#75

Post by feupan »

5560675260 wrote: post #72
rini17 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Don't like something? Take your money elsewhere, and make sure to tell why on social media, even if you don't have large following. Besides making bad practices unnoticeably less profitable this normalises caring about this. In the future we will see more business will see practices that you like as advantageous.

Sometimes there’s no elsewhere. Sometimes elsewhere only has crickets. It feels like you can’t both have a successful product and one that is free of noise. Only some open source software succeeds at this and even then quality often suffers immensely.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#76

Post by Dragony »

I've thought for a while that this kind of change for the sake of change is fuelled by the number of employees in the companies involved. The ratio of developers you need to build an application vs maintaining one is huge. That creates an incentive for companies to keep building.

Out of the perspective of Agencies (Outsourcing) each working developers generates revenue. Product companies can choose to either keep their employees and keep building, or simply let a huge chunk of them go. Letting a huge number of people go (mass layoffs) is generally seen as a bad thing. So they go the other route. Keep the employees around and have them working - building new stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#78

Post by TaylorAlexander »

5560675260 wrote: post #72
rini17 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Don't like something? Take your money elsewhere, and make sure to tell why on social media, even if you don't have large following. Besides making bad practices unnoticeably less profitable this normalises caring about this. In the future we will see more business will see practices that you like as advantageous.

Voting with your dollars does cede a lot of power to the wealthy, since they have most of the money and represent a small portion of the population.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#79

Post by starbugs »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #29
antocv wrote: post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

There is also ever-increasing ubiquitous digitalization of many aspects of our life. In a lot of countries, you either spend minutes to hours online to do government-required paperwork or days "the old way", and the old way is mostly dwindling, catering mostly to elderly internet-inept citizens. There are services you're only going to get online. And all those online things are way easier once you're committed to the…

> So, yeah, so far, personal comfort beats the hostility. So far.

I think that's a great acceptable answer to OP's question.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#80

Post by toastal »

noduerme wrote: post #67

You hit the nail on the head -- repeatedly. Shit. I just bought my gf a Roku as a stocking stuffer. We were setting it up and it made her put in her email and phone number to verify. I was appalled; I was like don't put in your email! I'll return it! But she wanted be able to watch YouTube on her TV since Apple removed it without warning from her AppleTV device . My own Roku from a couple years ago works great with n…

Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me.
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