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We need to reclaim our attention

theguardian.com

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Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#421

Post by RedBeetDeadpool »

slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

Tv and radio couldn't provide you with a constant stream of curated likes and messages. By social factor alone, this on a whole different level.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#422

Post by pjdorrell »

telxosser wrote: post #44
jmfldn wrote: post #2

This for me is key, these sorts of problems cannot just be solved on an individual level. They are systemic. "Individual abstinence is “not the solution, for the same reason that wearing a gas mask for two days a week outside isn’t the answer to pollution. It might, for a short period of time, keep certain effects at bay, but it’s not sustainable, and it doesn’t address the systemic issues.” He said that our attentio…

I just don't agree really. That analogy is pretty absurd. It is hugely powerful to not get caught up in all this nonsense at the individual level. I know so much more than what I knew in early January 2021 because I spend my time reading books, doing tutorials or taking MOOCS instead of wasting my time watching TikTok. I literally don't even know what the user interface to TikTok looks like and never will. If anythin…

I have been learning new things since I started _making_ videos on TikTok.

Ironically, making highly digestible content for social media is something that requires a certain amount of sustained attention.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#423

Post by ramijames »

radicalbyte wrote: post #18

My attention has collapsed in recent times, but it's not because of mobiles. It's because I have three young kids. You literally have to keep your eye on them at all times so you stop them killing themselves. Also, going from 8 hrs of sleep a night + 1 hr of intensive sport a day to 4-5 hrs of sleep a night and 1 hr of sport a year is an absolute mind killer. When I was younger I could never imagine going into manage…

Fuck man, me too. I've heard that this is just a phase that passes, but some days I think that I'm never going to be able to go back to being able to focus for 12+ hours a day.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#424

Post by bluesnowmonkey »

sascha_sl wrote: post #183
travisjungroth wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, usually people who lack the executive function navigate the healthcare system. It’s like they have a lack of focus pathology, so they can’t get an ADHD diagnoses. https://theunitofcaring.tumblr.com/post/168201153351/have-yo...

Can confirm. Lost every single object I could lose, dropped out of school, forgot I had prescriptions to pick up for a year, constant messy room, spent an entire year literally doing nothing and still feeling nervous every day, failed jobs where I couldn't cherry pick interesting things out of JIRA and then spent 2 hours in hyperfocus, followed by 6 hours of faking being busy because I simply couldn't focus anymore (…

> My job turned from amazing with coding every day to maintaining broken things last year (mostly black boxes others left behind).

You generally have more control over your job description than anyone will acknowledge to your face. If you’re miserable maintaining broken black boxes, then stop doing that. Figure out what you’d be more productive doing, tell your boss, and start doing it.

You may have some uncomfortable conversations. Stand up for yourself. There’s a huge gap between what your boss will complain about vs what they’ll fire you for. In most cases it’s incredibly difficult to fire someone who is doing something (almost anything) valuable.

Another thing you might consider is to pick one of those black boxes and dive into it. Tell people this thing is broken and you need to fix it and they need to cover the rest while you do so. If the company doesn’t have the resources to do so, that’s the company’s problem. Then focus on it until it’s not broken and not a black box (at least to you) anymore. Now you have job security as the person who understands the thing, and it’s a nice job to have because you made the thing nice.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#425

Post by dredmorbius »

tomxor wrote: post #241
dredmorbius wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Air surrounds us. Social media --- those site which we don't need to name because we all know what they are --- surround us socially . I don't use the F, or the T, or the IG, or the YT, or the TT. But I sure as heck live in the world they create. In most of the West they've permeate politics and culture. It's often difficult to engage with businesses, or governments, or your own job, without having a presence on thes…

I think you're correct to point out they indirectly affect us all through their impact on society as a whole. However what I meant (but failed to say explicitly), is that it is unlike breathing air (which is impossible to avoid), because partaking in these platforms personally is still optional for most people in the world - Maybe it's different in the US but you certainly don't need any of it for your job or governm…

Yes and no.

In the case of breathing (or not) air, wearing a particulate mask or VoC respirator is an option. It's expensive and marks one in public, of course.

In the case of social media, the exposure equivalent is the fact that much other normal intercourse --- social conversation, behaviours in public (as detailed in detail in TFA), and references in media, news or journalism (to the extent these still exist), in the form of trackers which appear on the present Internet, offline tracking through purchase and surveillance mechanisms which also feed into the attention-diversion, manipulation, and advertising machine, etc., etc.

And again, I assure you, for an increasing number of organisations, businesses, and institutions, the unspoken assumption is that social media use is normalised --- for communications, advertising, often for commerce, and again, with website trackers and data feeds through offline interactions.

I find the comparison apt.

Social media is atmospheric to a far greater

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#426

Post by afr0ck »

tome wrote: post #353
wott wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Developped countries share the same technologies, but this obesity and diabetes problem you're talking about seems largely rooted in North America. In France ("the land of delicate and healthy food", as it is sold to you), obesity rate was multiplied by 3 since the 80s. Overweight rate raised by 50%. Diabetes has also been on the raise: double or tripled since the 90s. You know, in general all the crap that develop…

> France ("the land of delicate and healthy food", as it is sold to you) Is it? I would associate that description more with Italy. With France I associate butter, cream, cheese, fatty cuts of meat ...

As well as the almighty Baguette.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#427

Post by jallbrit »

stevebmark wrote: post #301

One thing I believe to be true: If you have a device near you, there is no amount of habit or self control you can enact to change the habits of using that device. The same with the type of device. If a device has internet capabilities, no amount of self control or habit forming will make you only use the reading app on that device. You will always lose the habit at some point. A requirement for changing habits is ch…

> A requirement for changing habits is changing the physical world.

James Clear talks about this in Atomic Habits [0][1], explaining that to break a bad habit, you must invert the first law of good habits ("Make it Obvious") so that the bad habit is "invisible". To do this, as you say, you must change your environment: "Reduce exposure. Remove the cues of your bad habits from your environment."

[0] This Atomic Habits summary was posted on HN recently: https://www.chrisbehan.ca/posts/atomic-habits [1] https://s3.amazonaws.com/jamesclear/Atomic+Habits/Habits+Che...

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#428

Post by snerbles »

sascha_sl wrote: post #385
snerbles wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once, after a particularly intense fight in EVE Online I found my hands shaking. The only other occasion I surpassed that level of adrenaline was in Iraq in 2007.

EVE is a very special game. I’d attribute the rush more to all interactions being unscripted, fights to occur relatively rare and having pretty tangible value on the line. It definitely doesn’t compete very well for attention.

Personally, it was quite effective at garnering my attention - so much so that I cancelled my subscription when I returned to college.

While I've enjoyed many FPS' over the years the rush just doesn't compare with my own physical experiences. I cited EVE because - in my personal experience - it did manage to very briefly simulate that sense of danger.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#429

Post by mmarq »

wott wrote: post #318
tux3 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developped countries share the same technologies, but this obesity and diabetes problem you're talking about seems largely rooted in North America. You're a little quick to correlate screens and health metrics. I don't think that explanation holds up at all if you consider data in other countries.

> Developped countries share the same technologies, but this obesity and diabetes problem you're talking about seems largely rooted in North America. In France ("the land of delicate and healthy food", as it is sold to you), obesity rate was multiplied by 3 since the 80s. Overweight rate raised by 50%. Diabetes has also been on the raise: double or tripled since the 90s. You know, in general all the crap that develop…

With Southern France and maybe Paris being the exceptions, the eating habits of the average Frenchman are closer to those of the English and the American than to those of the Southern European.

Said that, obesity is largely a problem of the Anglo-sphere, it has many causes, including a severe lack of food culture (eg adults who think it’s proper to eat candy bars or to eat at McDonald’s). It is not inevitable that the horrid American food habits will become the norm everywhere, the US is not the teleos history is moving towards.

Re: We need to reclaim our attention

#430

Post by mmarq »

slibhb wrote: post #42

> Some scientists say these worries about attention are a moral panic, comparable to the anxieties in the past about comic books or rap music, and that the evidence is shaky. I agree with them. It's hard to pay attention to something for long unless it's entertaining. Reading a book, reading a paper, etc -- these activities take discipline that most people don't develop or don't often apply. This isn't new. The mista…

I agree and I’d add that until 20-30 years ago having an attention disorder wouldn’t prevent somebody from having a normal life, so, I think, many cases went undiagnosed.

Today, almost everywhere in the West, you need a professional job to have a decent lifestyle, and these jobs require some minimal capacity to concentrate that the average man doesn’t have and never had.

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