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Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

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Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#361

Post by imtringued »

gimme_treefiddy wrote: post #180

Slightly tangential question: Couldn't Bitcoin be implemented on something other Blockchain, since Blockchain is so computationally intensive. Like why not use a SQL database instead. It's definitely not technically infeasible, and you can reliably achieve all objectives of Bitcoin by doing so. The idea of independent financial system is great, but the inefficiency of it's usage is something I am very doubtful about.

A decentralized application requires you to download all of its data so that you can verify it yourself. An SQL database on top of a blockchain doesn't really change anything except make data storage less efficient.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#362

Post by scottiebarnes »

arcticbull wrote: post #342
scottiebarnes wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might need to review your monetary history. Fiat required trade to be based on gold first, a peg which was then broken. Central banks can create infinite units arbitrarily. "Enforced by the legal system" perhaps means controlled by the FOMC, a dozen central bankers who make decisions behind close doors, nominated and chosen by congress I believe.

> Fiat required trade to be based on gold first, a peg which was then broken. Fiat is by definition not based on gold. The term is [...] usually reserved for legal-tender paper money or coins that have face values far exceeding their commodity values and are not redeemable in gold or silver. [1] What you are describing is the switch from commodity money (gold standard) to fiat, an objectively better system for many r…

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quantitative-easing.asp

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#363

Post by imtringued »

grzm wrote: post #14
hrhrhrhrhr wrote: post #8

Gold mining consumes 240.61 TWh per year, which is comparable to the electrical energy consumed by a country like Australia. Source: https://globalenergyprize.org/en/2021/11/24/the-bitcoin-gold...

Gold as a material has many uses, not only to back currency. Comparison to bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is not particularly useful.

It doesn't really matter. Gold is just a hard to counterfeit token.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#364

Post by arcticbull »

scottiebarnes wrote: post #359
imtringued wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Central banks can create infinite units arbitrarily. They literally cannot. Central bank reserves aren't money in the sense of legal tender. Only borrowers can "create" money and they create an equal debt in the process which means all money in existence will have to disappear one day. Money has zero value throughout the entire process, the provider of value is the borrower, human being made out of flesh and blood.…

The US can literally choose to never default on its debt, regardless of how much money it actually has.

Yeah, and? That comes with consequences. If the creditworthiness of the US is not maintained internationally (i.e. by inflating the currency to evade insolvency) then it will lose its reserve status as significant global clout and domestic welfare. The risk of the US doing that is reflected in its credit rating which is reflected in the interest rate the US has to pay on its bonds. The interest rate is the compensation to bondholders for the risk of default.

Ditto the core team raising the supply cap.

Ditto the US initiating a nuclear missile strike on Iowa.

They could, but there's many reasons not to.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#365

Post by arcticbull »

johndevor wrote: post #208
not2b wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence that this number is nonzero?

Edit: I don't have direct evidence of saving lives (e.g. somebody bribed a guard with bitcoin in order to escape execution), but it's not hard to argue that these resistance organizations do save lives. * https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2020/09/09/belarus-nonprofit... * https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/10/16/nigerian-banks-shut... * https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2020/07/15/russian-activists... * https://wikileaks…

It has niche uses, but so would any other non-PoW crypto or a CBDC.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#366

Post by arcticbull »

scottiebarnes wrote: post #362
arcticbull wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fiat required trade to be based on gold first, a peg which was then broken. Fiat is by definition not based on gold. The term is [...] usually reserved for legal-tender paper money or coins that have face values far exceeding their commodity values and are not redeemable in gold or silver. [1] What you are describing is the switch from commodity money (gold standard) to fiat, an objectively better system for many r…

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quantitative-easing.asp

As imtringued also pointed out to you, the central bank in no uncertain terms cannot create money.

QE is not carried out by creating money. It's carried out by creating bank reserves and exchanging them for assets at primary dealers, increasing liquidity. That article you linked elides a number of key intermediate steps. QE indirectly increases the money supply as I explained to you. Not directly as you seem to continue to imply. [1]

[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/quantitative-easing...

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#367

Post by scottiebarnes »

arcticbull wrote: post #366
scottiebarnes wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quantitative-easing.asp

As imtringued also pointed out to you, the central bank in no uncertain terms cannot create money. QE is not carried out by creating money. It's carried out by creating bank reserves and exchanging them for assets at primary dealers, increasing liquidity. That article you linked elides a number of key intermediate steps. QE indirectly increases the money supply as I explained to you. Not directly as you seem to conti…

Are we hiding behind linguistic semantics?

If the fed wants to buy $100b of assets tomorrow, it can do so, despite not having that money. The interbank mechanics are unimportant, the point is the value is created at will, creating inflation, and is a decision of a few powerful individuals.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#369

Post by [deleted] »

imtringued wrote: post #338
frutiger wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and unwilling to sacrifice a modicum for others I agree with your sentiment but I have to disagree with that phrase. The vast majority* of people of people pay quite a lot of money in taxes, which ostensibly** only exist to help others. (*) I know the billionaires have their wealth as unrealized gains; I chose my words carefully (**) I know we all disagree on how that revenue should be spent, but the purpose of tax…

>(*) I know we all disagree on how that revenue should be spent, but the purpose of taxation is all the same The purpose of income tax is to avoid taxing land. You're basically paying taxes twice. Once to the government and again to the owner of the land who is making a profit off the services your government has provided via income taxes. Also, almost all welfare systems are designed to make poverty sustainable, whi…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#370

Post by esarbe »

oneoff786 wrote: post #247
esarbe wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about industrialized nations get rid of their agricultural subsidies?

Then the price of food goes up, and farmers have a bad time?

Then the rich countries cannot dump their chronic surpluses on the international markets and kill the local markets of developing countries for small-scale farmers.
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