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Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

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Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#491
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Covid-related? How many drug overdoses? How many suicides?

I looked up the information in a previous thread. For the United States, using the most conservative Covid numbers, they outweighs these by at least a factor of 5. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29706964

Do you have a link or source?

Overdose and suicide are two of the leading causes of death among young people. If Covid deaths were 5X higher, we’d see a much much larger overall increase than 40%.

Edit: Your numbers are for the total population, not young people. The death rates and leading causes of death are drastically different between young people and the general population.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#492
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Covid-related? How many drug overdoses? How many suicides?

This seems like what-about-ism. You could look these numbers up easily on the CDCs death data, and then you could formulate a coherent thought. Instead, it seems like you're just trying to derail the conversation with as little effort as possible.

[deleted]

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#493
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Covid-related? How many drug overdoses? How many suicides?

This seems like what-about-ism. You could look these numbers up easily on the CDCs death data, and then you could formulate a coherent thought. Instead, it seems like you're just trying to derail the conversation with as little effort as possible.

The biggest portion of this growth is almost certainly being driven by opioid poisoning. This was growing quickly pre-pandemic, but has skyrocketed in the last two years.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#494
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up the information in a previous thread. For the United States, using the most conservative Covid numbers, they outweighs these by at least a factor of 5. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29706964

Do you have a link or source? Overdose and suicide are two of the leading causes of death among young people. If Covid deaths were 5X higher, we’d see a much much larger overall increase than 40%. Edit: Your numbers are for the total population, not young people. The death rates and leading causes of death are drastically different between young people and the general population.

[deleted]

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like what-about-ism. You could look these numbers up easily on the CDCs death data, and then you could formulate a coherent thought. Instead, it seems like you're just trying to derail the conversation with as little effort as possible.

The biggest portion of this growth is almost certainly being driven by opioid poisoning. This was growing quickly pre-pandemic, but has skyrocketed in the last two years.

[deleted]

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#496
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like what-about-ism. You could look these numbers up easily on the CDCs death data, and then you could formulate a coherent thought. Instead, it seems like you're just trying to derail the conversation with as little effort as possible.

No, it’s not what-about-ism. It’s a suggestion that the two numbers being thrown around are accompanied by some bare minimum of detail to have a meaningful conversation. OP made the link to Covid-19, which seems very plausible, but it’s not clear if they have facts to support this or it’s just a guess. Suicides and overdoses are two of the leading causes of death among young Americans. It’s irresponsible to discuss a…

Asking someone to look up some numbers for you to complete your random hypothesis isn't exactly constructive either way.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#497
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different social/family circles maybe? (And my own-- not always healthy-- habit of reading comments on political news site... I've mostly backed away from that for my own mental sanity) But I've seen the "no big deal" thing a fair bit. I remember one exchange nearly verbatim "Fentanyl kills more people but all the fearmongering media wants to talk about is a virus that gives you a cold". Heck, at the very beginning p…

> but with the (possible) decrease in severe cases with Omicron I've seen hints of this argument again. Well, at some point, it's a reasonable argument. Risk isn't going to go to 0. It looks like with vaccination my personal risk is 2-3x influenza, but I may be overstating it. At some point, we're going to just have to give up and assume risks. I'm not routinely wearing masks 3 years from now.

I hope it does end up being true of Omicron, a bit too soon to tell though. It's a little early to tell: We're a month on from the end of November when Omicron really hit our radar and it took a few more weeks to see the really big spike we're in right now. On the national (US) level I don't see much of an uptick in deaths yet (although my own state has a bit of one) but deaths are also a lagging indicator so it may be another month before we can really tell for sure.

Another confounding variable are testing rates: Mandatory testing is in place to a significant degree more than last year, so it is difficult to tell how many more positive tests this year are simply due to mandatory testing. For example, they're required for air travel and about 3x more people traveled this year for the holidays. This is speculation though: Relevant data would be at least in part include asymptomatic case rates from year to year, but I couldn't find a good source for that. Information like [0] are very promising but still indicate that it's too early to tell.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

>At some point, we're going to just have to give up and assume risks. I'm not routinely wearing masks 3 years from now.

Mostly agreed, though as variants come & go I won't be surprised if some variants create "mask seasons" as they rise & fall. In retrospect even pre-covid it seems odd that it was deemed acceptable to go into work when you were sick with a cold or flu-- not necessarily even for severe health risks, but just as a matter of common courtesy. Of course changing that behavior in the long term would also require society (again, I'm in the US) to rethink things like what constitutes a reasonable amount of paid sick time. That is an especially problematic area when workplaces mandate 5/10/14 days of isolation but don't cover it with paid leave. My workplace does not cover that time if an employee is already out of paid sick leave. In the past, when going in to work when you were sick was somewhat optional, that made a little more sense. Now, telling someone they're losing 4% of their annual income due to a mandatory 14 day isolation period w/o pay is... I'm not sure I have a good word for it, but it feels wrong.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We have “once in 200 years” events happening it seems far more often than once in 200 years. I just don't take it seriously anymore. Track 200 factors, 200 businesses, or 200 industries and you will see 1 event per year. Track all of the above and you will see 40,000 such events in a year. More to the point, their actuarial model was probably wrong, not reality. Somewhere buried in their model were assumptions exclu…

I think the more thought-provoking question is what exactly is the Black Swan event? If only 37% of their ICU beds are used for COVID patients then why are so many more people dying right now?

There is one possibility which this community will flag & downvote anyone for suggesting, which is shameful; the idea should be entertained and then dismissed, if appropriate.

You may be interested to see Kaiser Permanente's recent study, suggesting that more than one in 2,000 young men are experiencing untimely heart disease with a known cause: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.21.21268209v...

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#499
post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked up the information in a previous thread. For the United States, using the most conservative Covid numbers, they outweighs these by at least a factor of 5. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29706964

Do you have a link or source? Overdose and suicide are two of the leading causes of death among young people. If Covid deaths were 5X higher, we’d see a much much larger overall increase than 40%. Edit: Your numbers are for the total population, not young people. The death rates and leading causes of death are drastically different between young people and the general population.

Do you have a link or source to support your hypothesis? It should be trivial to provide it.

Re: Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

#500
post #440
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that all covid deaths are accounted for and all the rest of the excess deaths are from lockdown, there would have to be at least as many excess deaths as covid deaths to start saying the cure is worse than the disease. From the numbers it seems like there would be about 800k covid deaths to 200k excess (in the USA), so that would indicate the disease was 4x worse than the cure. Of course those are all assump…

That's only assuming the lockdowns were effective compared to alternatives.

I was responding to the claim the lockdowns were worse than the disease, which was not correct. I claimed nothing else.
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