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Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

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Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#281
post #69

Not an expert, but Proof-of-stake (what Etherium 2.0 does) solves this, right? Now Bitcoin needs to find a path to implement it. https://blog.ethereum.org/2021/05/18/country-power-no-more/

Yes for Ethereum but Bitcoin will never adopt it, for ideological reasons. The community is extremely resistant to big changes like this. It took what should have been a small and uncontroversial change (where to store the witness data for transactions in a block) years of vicious debate and led to competing forks.

Prediction markets estimate at around 15% the chance that Bitcoin will adopt PoS. If you think this will never happen you can make money at https://www.metaculus.com/questions/7109/bitcoin-consensus-m....

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#282
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you give food to poor areas for free then their farmers go out of business, the area becomes more poor, and they become dependent on aid. Breaking systems always has consequences. It’s not easy.

How about industrialized nations get rid of their agricultural subsidies?

Yes, USA corn subsidies are obscene and often encourage over-use of fertilizers and pesticides. Governments should stop manipulating price signals.

If government was moderately okay at setting prices and production, there would not have been starvation of tens of millions under Mao's rule. If government manipulation of production worked, today North Korea would be the bread basket of the world.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you are serious, the Bitcoin Standard book is a worthy read. But what’s important is that Bitcoin solves the inflation problem, and proof of work is the only system that we have for getting rid of the Cantillon effect of modern banking: the closer people get to the top of the central banks, the richer they get and destroy life for those who don’t have access to the inner layers of central banking. With Bitco…

thanks for responding. why does bitcoin remove this cantillion effect? Remember that Roger Ver, who was in the room when Segwit 2 was discussed, decided to go forth with the bitcoin cash fork, which pleased the miners. It appears to me that miners are able to turn profit, that's why we see new mining facilities popping up around the world. also, does the market actually select the most efficient technology? Anecdotal…

The segwit+bitcoin cash fork was a technically very complex situation. Miners loved the Bitcoin cash fork as bigger block sizes centralize the system (makes block transfer time longer, which makes it easier to do selfish mining and harder for small miners to take part of the system, especially through TOR relay). Read the blocksize wars book (I listened to the audiobook and loved it) for an in depth explanation, it’s awesome.

Also Bitmain was using covert ASICBOOST: the Merkle-Damgard construction allows reusing the first part of the SHA256 computation, but Segwit broke that unofficial internal optimization that Bitmain was using for mining.

In that fork companies and miners thought that they can change the verification rules, as many people are just looking at the chain with the longest proof of work, not real full nodes. What they didn’t realize that with Bitcoin people who are long term holders with significant amount of money understand how crucial it is to run their own full nodes to verify all the rules, and just use miners for deciding the order of the transactions (instead of the rules to follow as well).

I personally sold all of my Bitcoin cash the first time I could make a Bitcoin cash transaction and bought Bitcoin with it (which wasn’t easy, as it had problem with difficulty adjustment).

The market is working slowly: people right now don’t understand how difficult is to run their own Ethereum full node (I wanted, but it’s incredibly hard to even get a description of how to do a full verification from the genesis block).

The main problem with the altcoin ecosystem is that exchanges make money of people transacting altcoins instead of just holding 1, so people get into the altcoin casino, losing lots of money (I have friends who have done this sadly). Sadly market works by smart and patient people taking advantage over other people (I try to help people to stay Bitcoin only, but it’s incredibly hard with some people, especially men…my female friends invest less money, but hold much more patiently, and get rewarded).

Lastly about the societal collapse: it is happening with fiat currencies anyways. I see the current CO2 emission problem as a $10T-$50T problem, while the inflation of fiat currencies as a $500T problem. Bitcoin will solve the inflation problem in 10 years (it has a yearly 2x adoption rate), and I believe people will care more about the environment after they don’t have to worry about paying their rent every month while working off their ass.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you keep inflation within an economic zone between 2 and 3 percent without control over your money? No matter if the economic growth is between -1% and 10%?

Bitcoin has a built in inflation schedule. If you believe that over long term price inflation of scarce assets (like New York real estate) will follow the inflation of the emission of the currency (which I believe), Bitcoin will make sure it will stay under 1% in the future. Right now Bitcoin is in the adoption phase, that’s why people are seeing the crazy price moves, but I expect it to normalize in the future (mayb…

I am not talking about scarce assets but of the entire economy of a country. Concretely, how would bitcoin would manage to keep inflation in a healthy range (1.5%-3%) given that we can no longer decide to emit or remove money from the system as the situation evolves? If the world goes into recession vs know an economical boom, you don't want to emit the same amount of money into the system.

Also, if two economic zones have very different growth rates, how does that work with a global currency like bitcoin?

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, for example. Or any other way that has worked more or less well throughout history. Few people are buying the “but the dissidents” argument of cryptocurrency. It’s a valid use case in theory but little so far shows that has been a use case. The thing about Bitcoin is that it’s mature tech now. Whatever promises it has should be materialized now. If it’s to be a currency rather than a store of value and instrumen…

> but little so far shows that has been a use case. How do you think I donate to the anti-Putin opposition every month?!

Oh that settles it then. Definitely in wide use as a currency…

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and unwilling to sacrifice a modicum for others I agree with your sentiment but I have to disagree with that phrase. The vast majority* of people of people pay quite a lot of money in taxes, which ostensibly** only exist to help others. (*) I know the billionaires have their wealth as unrealized gains; I chose my words carefully (**) I know we all disagree on how that revenue should be spent, but the purpose of tax…

> I know the billionaires have their wealth as unrealized gains; I chose my words carefully That they use as collateral to get loans from banks that actually have that money. "Billionaires don't actually have that money" is peak bootlicker logic.

No, the banks don't actually have the money. Banks are regulated and licensed to print money based on undercollateralized loans.

A house mortgage with 20% down is designed to be undercollateralized.

When the regulators and debt rating agencies don't do their jobs, it is easily apparent those loans were not fully collateralized. Therefore, the loans created money out of thin air. The banks are licensed to print money.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#288

The only way to beat Bitcoin or other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies is to remove the need for them. Bitcoin and other cryptos have a use-case; it may not be apparent to someone living in a developed country with access to a good banking system or it may be one you don't like and involves criminal activity, but there absolutely is a use-case. The only way to stop this is if the traditional banking system catches up a…

How do you legalize money laundering?

Prosecute only for the real crime, not for sending money? It was like that in the past.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#289
post #124
post #7

With a climate crisis the last thing we needed was to make the most effective energy consumption system ever constructed. The whole thing literally works on competing on consuming more energy. No other system works so efficiently towards such goal. What's scary is that the whole thing was designed to be unstoppable. My utopian hope for the future is that we start sending rigs in orbit close to the sun. Since we only…

>My utopian hope for the future is that we start sending rigs in orbit close to the sun ... Thats your utopia? How about we figure out a way to store/transfer wealth which doesnt need to perform arbitrary calculations and cause massive power consumption

We have tried the other way of enforcing money. That route of using military force is well understood. Is it better?

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never understood the BTC purists. I’m generally anti-crypto in any variety, but As far as cryptocurrency‘s go, bitcoin is really bad compared to so many alternatives. I’d just as soon see it all go up in smoke. But why does BTC reign?

This is what I find strangest. At least coins like Ethereum and Solana have entire ecosystems of complex projects being built up around them (no matter how skeptical one may be of those projects), Bitcoin seems like an incredibly spartan ecosystem with basically one use, and the sole advantage of being first.

That's the entire point. Bitcoin has just one use case, and it's very inefficient design is tailor-made for that one use case.

Alt-coins have use cases that can all be solved by AWS. The inefficient design is er....inefficient for those applications.

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