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Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

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Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#111

Post by jstx1 »

gime_tree_fiddy wrote: post #58

A slightly tangential question, in regards to Bitcoin and Blockchain, that I (surprisingly?) haven't seen answered/asked: Blockchain is computationally intensive, but why does it has to be used for Bitcoin. There could be another solution, which achieves all its objectives, but isn't necessarily as convoluted. What am I missing? Why not just use SQL databases?

SQL databases work well when all parties already agree with each other. With a distributed public "database" like blockchain you need a mechanism to prevent fraudulent transactions from being written to the database. That's how you end up with solutions like proof of work and proof of stake.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#112

Post by arcticbull »

sktrdie wrote: post #7

With a climate crisis the last thing we needed was to make the most effective energy consumption system ever constructed. The whole thing literally works on competing on consuming more energy. No other system works so efficiently towards such goal. What's scary is that the whole thing was designed to be unstoppable. My utopian hope for the future is that we start sending rigs in orbit close to the sun. Since we only…

The worst part is that according to Cambridge some 40% of that is coal power [1]. Frequently the dirtiest coal power in the world, between Xinjiang (no longer, probably...) and Kazakhstan. Coal power causes excess mortality of anywhere between 25 and 278 deaths per TWh generated depending on how you're counting it and (most importantly) where it's generated. [2,3,4]

Bitcoin's addiction to dirty coal killed between 1500 and 15000 people last year.

To process 4 transactions per second.

In a few years Bitcoin mining will kill way more people than the number of political dissidents it could hope to save through the magic of decentralization.

[edit] Energy is not free people. Not even renewables. Making electronics isn't free. E-waste isn't free. This isn't WoW.

[1] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldw...

[3] https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2011/03/deaths-per-twh-by-ener...

[4] https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#113

Post by vmception »

samwillis wrote: post #27
hrhrhrhrhr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of mined Gold is used as an investment vehicle or to make jewelry. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in...

But that 46% used for “investment” can still be used for something tangible at a later date and so has something other than speculation setting it’s price. Frankly I was pleasantly surprised it was only 46% used for investment.

there are multiple generations of people at this point who don't draw the line of utility at “tangible”

now that population has irrevocable possession as well, which still doesnt exist for digital tradable goods outside of this system, and all those people can use their digital property for multiple things too

even if it only does any one of those multiple thing moderately well, instead of anything exceedingly well, thats still value. it relies on cognitive negligence to make a separate higher standard for this, that could not apply to any asset under supply and demand pressure.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#114

Post by thathndude »

chillacy wrote: post #107
thathndude wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a son who is just about 10 years old, and he’s getting to the age where he’s beginning to realize how irrational our world is. We recently had a conversation discussing the fact that we could eradicate hunger and the need for clean water globally, but for a whole host of reasons we have not yet done it. He continues to probe “why“ and all I can say is, essentially, because people are greedy and unmotivated gen…

Adam smith wrote a short philosophy book about this back in the day about this very topic. (something like: what is worse: stubbing your toe, or a natural disaster somewhere remote which kills thousands but doesn’t affect you personally). I wouldn’t say it’s “the answer” but it is “a candidate answer”

Yeah. The classic formulation I’ve seen of that is “would you cut off your pinky to save 100 people’s lives in China”

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#115

Post by Hamuko »

adventured wrote: post #30
dtech wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison is the CO2 saved from transitioning from fossil fuel vehicles to EVs

The world's biggest EV market is China. 60% of their grid runs on coal. It would be interesting if there's any climate savings from what they're doing with EV vs ICE given their infrastructure. I'm doubtful it's much if anything.

China's urban population is like 61% at the moment. Considering that EVs are more efficient in urban environments since they don't actually need to spend much energy when idling, I imagine that it's still more efficient to burn fossil fuels centrally for electricity than everyone in their own car.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#116

Post by ur-whale »

gime_tree_fiddy wrote: post #58

A slightly tangential question, in regards to Bitcoin and Blockchain, that I (surprisingly?) haven't seen answered/asked: Blockchain is computationally intensive, but why does it has to be used for Bitcoin. There could be another solution, which achieves all its objectives, but isn't necessarily as convoluted. What am I missing? Why not just use SQL databases?

> Why not just use SQL databases?

How would a centralized SQL database have prevented the USG from cutting funding to Wikileaks?

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#117

Post by Gwypaas »

hihihihi1234 wrote: post #102
cryptica wrote: post #92

I like cryptocurrencies but this high electricity usage has kept me away from Bitcoin in the early days. I've since come to forgive Bitcoin for this ridiculous energy usage because of how important a problem Bitcoin is solving (the world desperately needs provably scarce, deflationary hard money). It's just unfortunate that people chose to focus on Bitcoin and not some other PoS crypto which uses less electricity...…

Why does the world need deflationary money?

To make the early ones in win.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#118

Post by Hamuko »

selfhifive wrote: post #99

Bitcoin and Data centers are two major global warming behemoths no one talks about. It's about time it became an issue.

At least data centers aren't designed to burn as much electricity as possible. Amazon is even giving me like a 20% discount to switch my services to run on the more energy-efficient ARM machines.

Re: Bitcoin consumed 134 TWh in total during 2021

#119

Post by tgv »

unicornmama wrote: post #76
Nextgrid wrote: post #56

The only way to beat Bitcoin or other proof-of-work cryptocurrencies is to remove the need for them. Bitcoin and other cryptos have a use-case; it may not be apparent to someone living in a developed country with access to a good banking system or it may be one you don't like and involves criminal activity, but there absolutely is a use-case. The only way to stop this is if the traditional banking system catches up a…

Care to share your evidence for the first paragraph?

The fact that people trade in it isn't enough evidence?
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