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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#471

Post by jakub_g »

Toutouxc wrote: post #418
jakub_g wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live on the coast, 15km from major airport and sometimes in the summer planes fly directly over my apartment, including really huge ones, just a few storeys above (I'd say 100-150 ft, maybe more). With open windows, it's madly loud. With closed windows it's a loud but somehow tolerable.

Perhaps an order of magnitude more? You'd expect an airliner at about 4000 ft at 15 km from the airport, assuming it's trying to land. It's also illegal to fly lower than 1000 ft above inhabited areas in most of the world.

The airport is sea level, I live on a little hill in a 3-floor building and the airplanes cruise over my head at what feels like 15th-20th floor max.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#472

Post by ghaff »

dheera wrote: post #389
nickjj wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…

It's not just Google Maps though. Also Apple Maps, Music, Podcasts... I find it so frustrating to use voice commands on my phone in the car that I mostly just don't even try. I set things up before I head off as much as I can and mostly stop somewhere before I make changes.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#473

Post by labcomputer »

ecshafer wrote: post #323
Pasorrijer wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comes down to a few things. First, money. Second, location. Third, skill. The Middle East doesn't have nearly the pool of pilots to start with compared to North America, and even NA is suffering from an extreme shortage of pilots. (Wonder why the airlines no longer fly to your small town? Probably because of a shortage of pilots)

Is there actually a pilot shortage, or is there a pay shortage? Most of the people I know who wanted to be pilots bounced off of the extremely low salary for a very long time. Unless someone does military and gets a lot of hours, and even then not always, they are stuck paying for their own license then making a bit above minimum wage flying between cleveland to nashville or something like that. If the airlines paid…

Some of both: An early-career pay shortage leads to an actual shortage of experienced pilots to fly big jets.

You can, of course, easily solve the problem by raising wages for regional jet pilots, but it takes a few years for the excess pilots to propagate to the major carriers.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#474

Post by twistedpair »

dehrmann wrote: post #66

I'm surprised commercial planes don't do full software reset before each flight, and especially before a new crew takes over. Checklists only get you so much.

It takes a while (think like 10min+) to reboot these planes. Checkout "cold start 777" on YouTube [1].

There are a ton of computers (FADECs for engines, fuel management computers, FMS (flight management), PFC (flight computers), weight and balance computers... and much more). All of these have state. Which way is up for the gyros. Proper direction for the compasses. Proper location on Earth for the navigation system... etc. Basically, a 777 has the mother of all POST sequences, so frames in line operation are rarely restarted, for operational efficiency.

Reminds me of the navigation systems for some rockets (Atlas, IIRC), that require 24 hrs sitting level on the pad to fully initialize their starting ground state (super precise gyros). This ain't like restarting your internet connected juicer.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6UCD0o0NCU

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#476

Post by teeray »

lovasoa wrote: post #273
teeray wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my reading, auto pilot was not involved. Flight Directors are basically an overlay on the instruments showing where the pitch, roll, etc. of the plane needs to be to achieve the programmed navigational fixes.

Is there any situation when it would make sense to have the flight director set to an altitude of zero before takeoff ? If not, then maybe it shouldn't stay switched on and set to zero after landing when the crew leaves the cabin ? Couldn't it be reset automatically ?

Yes, if the field is below sea level. They do exist!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#478

Post by twistedpair »

caf wrote: post #341

Never mind the passengers, this would have been pretty scary for those in the houses being overflown by a 777 at treetop height!

Biggest jet engines ever made, at tree top level, running @ TOGA power. Yeah, that woke up the neighbors.

Too bad this was at night. Would have been some wild Nest cam footage during the day.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#479

Post by twistedpair »

usr1106 wrote: post #218
cmurf wrote: post #3

https://avherald.com/h?article=4f24b2d7&opt=0

This! While the maintainer of the site is a "strong character", I would trust him for timeliness of updates and correctness of the information provided.

<3 to Simon Hradecky for all his hard work over the years. Such a great AV safety resource.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#480

Post by twistedpair »

munchler wrote: post #29

Why is it even possible to enter a desired altitude of 0 feet into an automatic pilot? As a layman, it’s hard for me to imagine why anyone flying a 777 would want to maintain an altitude of zero at full speed for more than a few seconds (if that).

The Germanwings Flight 9525 tragedy [1] was effectuated by the suicidal pilot inputting an auto-pilot target altitude of 100ft, while flying over high mountains. The plane dutifully flew into the mountains, murdering 150 people.

While there are airports with elevations lower than 0ft, this is a good design question to ask. In general, it's assumed the pilots will do the right thing to save the day, if needed.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

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