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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#461
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that you made the mistake in that case right?

why do you say that? sounds like he was braked-checked by the tesla of course, in a large sense, the one that hits from behind is at fault, but brake-checking is problematic

Problematic and completely unexpected. No one speeding past you is going to brake check you for moving into their lane, so this kind of behavior from a computer is inevitably going to lead to accidents.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#462
post #401

"You’ll want to look at the right two columns, with the left column being the altitude, and the right column being the speed." actually i think i'd rather look at plots rather than images of tables of numbers. smh.

So did you produce the plot from the data presented?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After working in the industry, I can safely say self-driving is a massively profitable lie. It can work in limited instances, but I don't think we'll have full self driving aka level 5 in urban environments until infrastructure changes. You simply need 5G/V2X for that. Just relying on cameras will not work. On that page, I have my concerns about EVs in general, who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitt…

> Just relying on cameras will not work. If it’s good enough for us (two small cameras and two microphones all mounted right next to each other) why is it inherently infeasible for a computer?

Those cameras are backed by processing that's so far ahead of anything silicon can do it's not even funny. It's not inherently infeasible, but it seems computers will need a huge leap in certain capabilities before they will be able to act as a drop-in replacement for human drivers.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#464
post #22

"The thing that stands out here the most is the complete lack of control that the crew had over the plane. The crew was managing the computers rather than flying the aircraft ." Perhaps they are "Children of the Magenta": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs ... and I cannot recommend this video enough. I am not a pilot and I have no interest in flying nor any particular interest in aviation, generally ... and…

If you do find this video fascinating, I'd encourage you to take a few flight lessons, especially if you find an instructor that can be on board with your goal of not really learning to fly per se but exploring some of these more nuanced issues around task saturation and automation -- on several single seater prop planes today you have just as many avionics bells and whistles like you would in an airliner. As I've learned to fly, the mix of psychology, HCI, systems design, etc., has been awesome to contemplate. Nothing I've ever done has made me so keenly aware of my own way of processing information, how to deal with stressors, etc. It's an absolute blast, and if you have any interest in any of these areas and are so aware of it as to really like the magenta video, I promise you you'll like it too!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#465
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> How you get to this level of incompetence flying a 777 is far beyond my understanding. I don't fly, but what I hear from my commercial pilot friends is that many carriers are emphasizing pilots to run on auto-everything so their actual fly-the-plane skills deteriorate. And much worse, the newer generation of pilots never acquired those skills to begin with. due to relying on automation.

There is a well known video among commercial pilots called "Children of the Magenta Line".

The magenta line refers to a line on the display you can just "follow" around that is calculated by the computer.

The video is all about how young pilots are just following around the magenta line and not having the "big picture" of what is going on in their heads.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#466
post #22

"The thing that stands out here the most is the complete lack of control that the crew had over the plane. The crew was managing the computers rather than flying the aircraft ." Perhaps they are "Children of the Magenta": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ESJH1NLMLs ... and I cannot recommend this video enough. I am not a pilot and I have no interest in flying nor any particular interest in aviation, generally ... and…

Wow, that is a great video thank you for sharing! Still watching it but wanted to comment. So taking this away from aviation,the reactions and issues he shares are exactly my concerns with self driving cars.

As I went through my pilot training (even for just single engine piston planes) there was so much focus on decision-making and interpreting automation and info from the plane that it absolutely has made me even more skeptical about the current state of self-driving cars. In the flight world, you get trained so much about how to properly monitor systems and how to be a step ahead of it at all times, and how to react to failures, etc.... It seems like we're completely not in the vicinity of that kind of thinking with self-driving cars... its as though for cars we are to just trust the automation and the law of large numbers will take care of things assuming it is safe enough!

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> How you get to this level of incompetence flying a 777 is far beyond my understanding. The article said--it's the smallest plane Emirates flies.

The error we're talking about here is something that shouldn't happen even to a rookie straight out of flight school. Hell, even a kid flying flight simulator knows that something is wrong if you're still on the ground at 200kts on a 777.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The article said--it's the smallest plane Emirates flies. What does that have to do with anything? The 777 is a huge aircraft. It has a maximum passenger capacity of 550 people. If you can have 550 people lives in your hands and are making mistakes like this, it doesn't matter if it's the smallest aircraft in their fleet. And before anyone bothers to point it out, I know this particular airframe was not configured…

It's the smallest airplane and a very long route which means it gets the least promoted pilots; it's the shittiest route. The article discusses this.

Even the least promoted pilot shouldn't be this incompetent in an airline like Emirates. I could perhaps understand it from some small airline in developing country where the pilots got their licences through bribery.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#469
post #446
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better sel…

My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving. No need for speculation, I know I would be incapable of taking over on a short notice if the car does something bad.

> My own experience is that I tend to snooze as a car passenger on a long trip while I do not when I am the one driving.

I would hope not. :)

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#470

I am reminded for some reason about an Air Asia (?) flight a few years ago that departed SYD/MEL for KUL (?) where by some fat finger accident one of the pilots initialized the plane's location (while on the ground), skipping or misplacing one decimal point in the lat/long somewhere. He had to do it manually because some FD/GPS system was not correctly functioning or was inop, and then after doing this there was no w…

Varig Flight 254 was another similar case [1].

Bad FMC data entry during preflight caused pilots to fly west, rather than east, until they were too low on fuel and crashed into the Amazon rainforest. Sun was setting, so cardinal direction was obvious, leading some passengers to ask flight attendants why they were flying the wrong direction, but they were brushed off.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varig_Flight_254

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