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Web3 is centralized

blog.wesleyac.com

271–280 of 497 posts

Re: Web3 is centralized

#271

I think the author makes the mistake of assuming that web3 is a meaningful, tangible term being used in good faith. In reality, web3 is a marketing buzzword that cryptocurrency boosters have started promoting in an attempt to legitimize their resource intensive and otherwise useless financial speculation.

So if I just stop using web3 as a catch-all for the things I work on (i.e. IPFS, Crypto Wallets, Merkle Trees) and just start naming them one by one everything will be OK and it's not a marketing buzzword anymore? Or should I be aware that I am in fact only building marketing funnels even though I find value in the technology being built?

The problem with "web3" is it implies/its proponents claim that it's a successor to web 2.0. How does it make sense for this crypto "assettech" stuff to replace/supersede the current www stack? Naming it "web3" just comes off as a cheap attention grab.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#272
> but global consensus is a goal that is fundamentally at odds with the goal of decentralization.

I’ve long fantasized that machines should “evolve” the network protocols they use to communicate. Parts of packet protocols they never use to communicate might gradually be dropped while common higher level portions always needing to be used might migrate lower. Of course more “formal” protocol specification would still be used when communicating with strangers.

In this it would be like the specialized jargon interest groups adopt.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of "collecting royalties" requires a legal infrastructure backed by a state's monopoly on force. Nothing about web3, as I understand it, will require someone to pay me in money that I can spend. People can still copy and redistribute my content (ie this post) and profit from it in various ways. The concept of a blockchain does nothing to prevent this.

But those platforms that let you use the scarce digital assets will. OT allow you to pull unlicensed copies from anywhere but from known endpoints, thus your digital copies are useless as none point to them. Similar to how you hosting www.google.com on your web server doesn't get any of the real Google traffic as none point to you.

So if the platform is doing all the heavy lifting, why do you need the blockchain again? i.e. what is the difference between this and YouTube? Blockchain is superfluous to this scheme

Re: Web3 is centralized

#274
post #28

Crypto market is really sad. It's a novel technical solution. But it can't find a problem where it fits as a good alternative. It's not a good alternative to banks, art collections or web hosting. But Bitcoin is still worth billions, NFT are all the rage and Web3 went from new concept to "trend" in the span of what feels like a week. But even with all the success they don't seem to be convincing many they have any in…

Yes, completely glossing over the usefulness of digital-native money: instant, verifiable transactions from anywhere in the world, programmable money and low fees. Oh, and how it disrupts the remittances industry, something extremely useful to vulnerable communities with families abroad. I agree that Web3 is mostly a grift, but cryptocurrencies are quite useful already.

> Yes, completely glossing over the usefulness of digital-native money: instant, verifiable transactions from anywhere in the world, programmable money and low fees.

However, these properties are not exactly specific to "digital-native money":

* Instant: banks can transfer money instantly between accounts as long as both accounts belong to the same bank. In Europe I can name Raiffeisen and ING as two examples and I believe that Wells Fargo in the US has instant transfers as long as both accounts are opened at the same bank and probably there are more. And in most case there are no "gas" fees for those transfers.

* Verifiable: all bank transactions are verifiable (at least internally, banks are forced to have an audit department) and in all cases you receive a receipt for your transaction. If you want to verify all the transactions yourself, glossing over the severe privacy issues that a blockchain will introduce (once you know the real ID of a wallet, you'll know all the finances of a person), it's not that easy to validate crypto transactions "from anywhere in the world": Ethereum requires more than a TB of space and Solana validator requirements basically point to an expensive server running in a datacenter (at least 128GB of RAM and 300Mbit symmetrical network bandwidth). Even Bitcoin's blockchain is several GB large which is very unwieldy to sync in areas with slow or bad internet connection (yes, DSL is still a thing).

* Programmable money: I'm guessing this would be the take on "smart contracts", but this is far for being perfect because you still need to trust that the code in the smart contract triggers the right action. For example, if I were to buy a laptop from somebody using a smart contract I will still need to trust that the smart contract will trigger the entire flow of sending the correct laptop using a courier to my place. A way around it would be to have the owner send the laptop to a third-party and the third-party would have some sort of reputation for correctly implementing the outcome of smart contracts, but we're back again at trusting a central authority and the entire flow could be implemented using regular code, so what's the point of smart contracts?

* Low fees: there are a lot of fees associated with cryptocurrency transactions on top of several "blockchain fees" like Ethereum's gas. For example, the service fee for using MetaMask is 0.875% of the transaction, or if I move $1000 from one account to another using MetaMask will cost me $8.75. I currently pay $0 for moving from one account to another one as long as they are opened the same bank.

Cryptocurrencies can have some legitimate benefits in specific situations (I'd imagine that transactions between parties in areas with no or very bad/expensive Internet access can be more trustworthy using cryptocurrencies), but I doubt these cases are as frequent as many people claim they are. I'd argue that by far the most interesting use would be to use cryptocurrencies as stores of value and have them regulate as some sort of equity because this would allow Wall Street to do all kinds of funky things with them :-)

The best take I've heard was from Michael Saylor of MicroStrategy, who was explaining a couple of months ago how it's much better to invest into Bitcoin because you can easily split it and move it to another country should the tax be too high, while buying a lot of land in New York requires paying a property tax and can even be devalued based on the zoning.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you making a fair number of these sorts of ad hominem attacks in response to good-faith posts. Please stop.

Based on my reasoning it is illogical and meaningless. Pretty sure same logic as the poster. You on the other hand are not providing anything, but read of what I posted previously, please stop.

If you find something illogical and meaningless, take the time to explain why.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#276
post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't talking about it as in copyright / legal sense, and more in the I can allow others to access a snapshot of it at a given time and/or remove access to it for future content if I wish to do so. Now the relationship is the reverse, I give content to some org and they can do as they wish with it; I'm surrending it for them to use in exchange of them allowing me to use their platform for free. e.g. from Twitter's…

A blockchain is publicly-accessible, append-only database, so again I don't know how an append-only data structure can help you revoke access to some content. Not to mention that Twitter can always choose to not display your tweets unless you grant them a license, regardless of where these tweets are hosted.

even if you could update state* once you gave access to anything it's out of your control as it might be cached somewhere else. This is why I mentioned for future changes rather than what you already allowed.

And you are right twitter can still have that clause, and they can cause they have somethign to offer (i.e. a userbase) but if the content of everyone would be somewhere else other competiors would be able to offer it and then competiion for users would tend to make those terms more accessible to those that care enough to read them.

* you can by doing it as in an event sourcing system. After all blockchains+smart contracts are similar to a giant state machine

Re: Web3 is centralized

#277
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm of the opinion that the pseudonymous nature of public blockchains is very beneficial to society. Have you tried to “steelman” this? Because I don’t think it will pass basic scrutiny. The same companies and governments you want track have more incentives and resources to hide their transactions than any individual, so, either all transactions are public or they’ll be able to hide while most individuals won’t.

Well, except for ransom attacks, nobody is forced to use a public cryptocurrency. For it to be common and being proud of one's economic transaction history would be awesome. In the 90s, experiments in publicity like reality TV and the Truman Show movie gave way to social media in the next decade. We are constantly finding new ways to publicize our lives because there is value in publicity. Privacy shouldn't disappear…

> being proud of one's economic transaction history would be awesome.

I sincerely doubt we'll ever see that. First off, Venmo has already tried to apply the social media formula to transactions. I don't know of a single person who reads their Venmo feed just for fun. Next, most transactions are boring and not worth sharing. "John bought toilet paper and Q-tips. [Like] [Retweet]".

You state that the move to hyper-publicity that we've already seen hasn't reached it's peak for usefulness and yet there are already widespread conversations about the dangers and pain that this hyper-publicity has caused.

If we reach a future where people are "proud" of their transactions and are sharing them everywhere then we've made a horrible mistake.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#278
post #3

My main concerns with Web3 are that it is "pay to play" in many aspects and it's less democratic than the existing Internet.

Not only that, but the price is not adjusted to the local cost of living, making it more expensive to poorer nations. The payment gate isn't as high for every one.

I can't justify an internet that hinders the free flow of information.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#279

So many people complaining about web3 being: - more centralized - more controlled by VCs - less performant / reliable / secure than web2 These are probably all true for now. They failed to see the key features web3: 1. the possibility (but not guarantee) to operate in a hostile government / regulatory environment 2. the possibility (but not guarantee) to operate without a legal entity without shareholders / boards We…

I always felt like the possibility to operate in a hostile regulatory space is a bit of a strawman

for one, blockchains still use the "regular" internet infrastructure at the bottom. If said nefarious government wants to shut down the usage of a web3 service they don't care about the "decentralised" nature, they just cut it on infrastructure level.

as for the legal entity, this is a boon as much as it is a threat to running a service. The dominant stakeholders or miners in your network hold executive power here, the main difference is that you'll have no legal resort if things go south.

in short, i might give you a _possibility_ to evade bad actors outside your system. But it cuts away any regulatory recourse you'd had against bad actors _within_ your system.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#280
So the argument starts with a (rather bizarre) claim that blockchains are centralized because one have to use the protocol that the rest of the network is using. The argument goes on with an attempt to contrast blockchains with the "web as it exists" and claim that one can "speak whatever protocol you want" in it -- with a caveat that "one have to put significant work" to convince others to use it.

It is quite ironic that author is basically explains the concept of a hard fork [1] while never even mentioning those. Most likely because he is not familiar with basic blockchain concepts. Or, to put it more bluntly, has no idea what he is talking about.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_(blockchain)

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