The main issue with "Web3" is that it moves records of transactions from many private places to one public place. Sure this one place may not be controlled by a single entity, but it facilitates tracking at an unprecedented level. Cryptocurrencies are the ultimate example of this and are an absolute boon to tax collectors, forensic accountants and fraudsters. In our current economy financial transactions are recorded…
Web3 is centralized
251–260 of 497 posts
Re: Web3 is centralized
#252So many people complaining about web3 being: - more centralized - more controlled by VCs - less performant / reliable / secure than web2 These are probably all true for now. They failed to see the key features web3: 1. the possibility (but not guarantee) to operate in a hostile government / regulatory environment 2. the possibility (but not guarantee) to operate without a legal entity without shareholders / boards We…
Isn't it harder to operate in a hostile government with a centralized ledger? Once the government somehow gets a hold of which wallets you use, they will be able to track down all your steps.
Re: Web3 is centralized
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
It smells like the .com boom/bust all over again. Like you say, money drives the discussion, not tech. Which is indeed unfortunate.
> It smells like the .com boom/bust all over again [..] Question: does being old enough to have lost money* - and having done so** - back in the .com bubble correlate with whether you're positive or negative about Web3 ? "This Time Is Different" has been said by sales types since at least the year 1637 * Full disclosure: yes, I am ** Full disclosure: yes, I did .. not enough to have mattered, but enough to [still] re…
Re: Web3 is centralized
#254Re: Web3 is centralized
#255The author doesn't understand the primary goal. It's precisely to have global consensus that proceeds according to its logic - so if you own something it can't be taken away from you. Everyone running their own private blockchains isn't decentralization, it's federalization. In the internet context, we know exactly how it would look like - initially an ecosystem of independent forums, each a fiefdom of the moderating…
> The author doesn't understand the primary goal. It's precisely to have global consensus that proceeds according to its logic - so if you own something it can't be taken away from you. How is global consensus not centralisation though? Humans are notorious for disagreeing on everything. Having one global arbiter of truth/consensus seems implausible at best. Anything that could provide global consensus will need to b…
In the same way reality itself is 'centralized'.
Global consensus is meant to add a digital layer to reality. Reality is objective by definition. What's subjective is trying to measure it - but this problem doesn't exist for digital systems.
>Who would maintain the system for global consensus?
The practical implementation has to ensure that
(1) consensus is maintained by a diverse set of potentially anonymous participants. Ideally, this would mean literally all humans, but that's of course impossible. The set should be large and diverse enough so that even powerful actors (especially governments) have no ability to force them to do something.
DPoS, PoA fail here from the start. PoW is vulnerable over medium term: it has infinite economies of scale which leads to centralization and taking it over externally is always possible (because 'stake' in PoW is external and potentially infinite - mining hardware).
(2) the most profitable course of action is for every validator to follow the protocol honestly. In ethereum's PoS that's achieved by slashing maliciously misbehaving validators.
PoW has an orders of magnitude weaker punishment here (just mining rewards for the time spent on mining a minority chain). Most DPoS systems rely on the assumption that a majority is always honest, even if it makes financial sense to not be - eg. Cardano's Ouroboros.
>Who would maintain the system for global consensus? And how would they not just be our new rulers?
In the early period updates are necessary as system evolves - but eventually it has to be frozen, with the possible exception of scaling parameters (like block size, number of shards) which could be determined by a vote from validators.
>What do you own with an NFT? Who enforces that ownership?
There's no difference to real life here. "Owning" a house actually means there exists a publicly verifiable promise from an entity capable of wielding some form pf violence to enforce that property right. Therefore, an NFT that's connected to any external asset can only a different form of such a record.
In the case of image NFTs, it's an improvement on physical art. The point of buying physical art is to either signal wealth, or to use it for money laundering. Image NFTs are infinitely superior for the first - because they are globally visible (as opposed to a physical piece of art) and fake NFTs are impossible (so you can't buy a cheap replica and pretend you spent a fortune on the original). They are much better for money laundering because they are inherently global (no transport issues) and evade identity checks in the banking system.
Exactly like physical art, if you just like it and want to look at it - you can save a copy. A replica of physical art is free in the same way - you can save a photo of it. If you want a physical replica, in both cases you can print it. An actual replica of physical art would be more expensive, but in many cases orders of magnitude cheaper than the original.
Therefore, nobody buys expensive existing art just because they like it, which leaves two reasons I mentioned.
>Ultimately this screams of solving a people problem with a technical one.
Yes. The entire history of human civilization consists of solving social problems with technology.
Re: Web3 is centralized
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Looking at the token standards[1], I can't see how you could create a "backdoored token" that would authorize movement of other tokens but that sounds like a scary threat vector. Could you explain how that would work please? I've heard about ERC20 tokens that allowed the issuer to pull them back (that's the SoarCoin thing[2]) but not a token that allowed other tokens to be transferred. [1] https://eips.ethereum.org/E…
The standards only really define what should be done at the interface or what the function inputs and outputs should be, but don't really define the internals of the functions. For example inside of a malicious approve function call, you could hardcode a list of popular addresses that also approved those tokens if the msg.sender is holding (balanceOf calls) them and even potentially then have transfer functions calls…
Re: Web3 is centralized
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is not exclusiv to web3 and is not new. If I buy a house, I can take a credit on that house. If I bought some stock, banks will let me take a loan on them afaik. I can also borrow some money and choose something expensive that I own for a collateral. Maybe crypto makes the last one easier, but then it will lead to a lot of fraud, because veryifing that the item I set as collateral is the difficult and expensive…
Look at it from the developer side, you (as a dev) cannot offer anything of you what you mentioned without government approval, but you can deploy a new yearn strategy to offer what GP mentioned. We can argue if that's good or bad, but for sure the latter is more decentralized since it doesn't require approval from a gatekeeper.
The reason you wouldn't be able to simply start a website offering people loans would be because of laws, I see no argument that if you somehow use a different technology it is suddenly legal.
Re: Web3 is centralized
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think at this point we’re just so far past the point of having reasonable discourse on this topic that it will not be possible to have a reasoned discussion about it ever again, anywhere, regardless. Personally I have to fight my own rising blood temperature to even discuss it as being “a thing”, because people have such fundamentally different views on what that thing is, and I believe the argument is made in bad…
>Adherents would have you believe that the current price, whatever it is at a given point, must mean some variant of “can all these people really be wrong? That’s ridiculous”. It’s not a reasonable starting point for a discussion, and then it immediately breaks down again. But it is reasonable to dismiss the whole field because you think it's a scam? Please read what you write before you post, as this is meaningless…
Re: Web3 is centralized
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Adherents would have you believe that the current price, whatever it is at a given point, must mean some variant of “can all these people really be wrong? That’s ridiculous”. It’s not a reasonable starting point for a discussion, and then it immediately breaks down again. But it is reasonable to dismiss the whole field because you think it's a scam? Please read what you write before you post, as this is meaningless…
I see you making a fair number of these sorts of ad hominem attacks in response to good-faith posts. Please stop.
Re: Web3 is centralized
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ownership of "content" requires intellectual property laws, which are enforced by courts of justice, and we already have these. A blockchain cannot enforce intellectual property rights because it lacks coercive power. If your goal is to "retain ownership" of the content that you produce, a blockchain is not going to help you AT ALL with that.
I wasn't talking about it as in copyright / legal sense, and more in the I can allow others to access a snapshot of it at a given time and/or remove access to it for future content if I wish to do so. Now the relationship is the reverse, I give content to some org and they can do as they wish with it; I'm surrending it for them to use in exchange of them allowing me to use their platform for free. e.g. from Twitter's…