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Web3 is centralized

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Re: Web3 is centralized

#161

Post by ramchip »

deivid wrote: post #128
darawk wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree completely. There is a ton to criticize about crypto and "Web3" (I hate the term, tbh). It's rife with scams and unearned wealth. Even the things that aren't outright scams are mostly people selling hype. But this technology does enable something novel. Digital self-custody of scarce assets is a new thing. A thing that nobody could do before this stuff. And if that has utility, then the infrastructure for tradi…

At least my problem with this entire ecosystem is that it enables artificial scarcity on digital goods, which wasn't really feasible before.

Digital goods in games have had artificial scarcity for ages. Look at the Golden Pan in TF2 for instance, which sells for thousands of dollars.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#162

Post by emerongi »

discardedrefuse wrote: post #65
sergiomattei wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, completely glossing over the usefulness of digital-native money: instant, verifiable transactions from anywhere in the world, programmable money and low fees. Oh, and how it disrupts the remittances industry, something extremely useful to vulnerable communities with families abroad. I agree that Web3 is mostly a grift, but cryptocurrencies are quite useful already.

It's not instant and the fees aren't always low. I was trying to transfer $10 USD in Bitcoin last May, when the BTC market was going insane, and it was impossible.

Additionally: can you make cryptocurrency transactions offline? In my opinion that is a crucial part of the "digital cash" idea. I don't know the technical details so it would be nice if someone more knowledgeable could answer.

I'll even throw in a scenario that I've encountered: the card readers in a store aren't working, because there is a connection issue. Instead of using cash in my literal physical wallet, I'd like to pay with my digital wallet. Can I conduct my transaction offline with the store?

Re: Web3 is centralized

#163

Post by mattwilsonn888 »

> The problem here is the profit motive: people who are working on web3 generally want to get paid for it, but it's fundamentally harder to extract rent from truly decentralized systems than it is from centralized ones. Because of that, people end up building systems that are centralized at their core, with some aesthetics of decentralization smeared on top, and call it web3.

There are a lot of dumb thoughts about web3 on HN; this is a valid criticism and it doesn't so obtusely assume that because web3 is new, it has grifters, and it has broken promises, that every issue arising from it is somehow unsolvable.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#164

Post by hda2 »

neuroma wrote: post #72

It's fascinating how on hacker news one typically finds detailed, reasoned and thoughtful comments. However on the topic of crypto and web3 the comments reliably degenerate into partisan tit for tat, consisting mainly of poorly researched, unreasoned sound bytes. It's a pity because I'd love to hear quality thought on the space. My personal view is that crypto and Web3 "are a thing" (Mean Girls) and will continue to…

My feelings exactly. I'm also frustrated and disappointed with how discussions always end up stuck on the same tried and well-hashed points.

I don't want a "pro-crypto" echo chamber, but I also don't want what hn devolves into whenever these topics are brought up.

If you manage to find this reasonable place, please, please post it here as reply to your comment. I've favorited your comment and will check any replies to it for a month or two.

What a pity :(

Re: Web3 is centralized

#165

Post by koonsolo »

Freskis wrote: post #86
neuroma wrote: post #72

It's fascinating how on hacker news one typically finds detailed, reasoned and thoughtful comments. However on the topic of crypto and web3 the comments reliably degenerate into partisan tit for tat, consisting mainly of poorly researched, unreasoned sound bytes. It's a pity because I'd love to hear quality thought on the space. My personal view is that crypto and Web3 "are a thing" (Mean Girls) and will continue to…

For most people, crypto is about money, not tech. Easy money, quick money. Therefore the spam level of any crypto discussion is so huge that the opinion gets drowned out by the propaganda.

You are on a forum that is literally owned by an investment firm. Do you think they invest because of the good of their hearts, or as some kind of charity, or because of "the technology"?

Investments happen because people want to make money, end of story. Not to help other people, because that is called charity.

BUT, that doesn't mean that investing is all about scamming people. It is clear at this point that the best investments are the ones that provide actual value to a lot of people.

To conclude: most things are about money, but that doesn't invalidate the value behind it.

And just like the OP, I agree that on HN these discussions always end up nowhere.

"It's all about money, not technology", and when you talk about technology: "It's technology looking for a problem", and then you talk about use-cases: "A centralized system is more efficient".

Re: Web3 is centralized

#166

Post by sergiomattei »

emerongi wrote: post #162
discardedrefuse wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not instant and the fees aren't always low. I was trying to transfer $10 USD in Bitcoin last May, when the BTC market was going insane, and it was impossible.

Additionally: can you make cryptocurrency transactions offline? In my opinion that is a crucial part of the "digital cash" idea. I don't know the technical details so it would be nice if someone more knowledgeable could answer. I'll even throw in a scenario that I've encountered: the card readers in a store aren't working, because there is a connection issue. Instead of using cash in my literal physical wallet, I'd l…

My perspective: I don’t see bitcoin replacing fiat anytime soon, so for day-to-day transactions, cash works all good! No need to replace it completely. They can coexist.

In the scenario you mention, I’d just reach for cash.

However, as a protocol for payments/value in the digital world, it’s very compelling.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#167

Post by hooande »

vpilcx wrote: post #92
neuroma wrote: post #72

It's fascinating how on hacker news one typically finds detailed, reasoned and thoughtful comments. However on the topic of crypto and web3 the comments reliably degenerate into partisan tit for tat, consisting mainly of poorly researched, unreasoned sound bytes. It's a pity because I'd love to hear quality thought on the space. My personal view is that crypto and Web3 "are a thing" (Mean Girls) and will continue to…

This isn't specific to web3 but more crypto but the idea of having an integrated method of collecting royalties on resale of an item indefinitely is pretty exciting. That said, the hype seems a little bit overblown. When people are so focused on "overthrowing Big Tech" as to why web3 will be the next wave, it just seems like hype over substance. I forgot what the name of it was, but I tried to sign up to some web3 so…

The concept of "collecting royalties" requires a legal infrastructure backed by a state's monopoly on force. Nothing about web3, as I understand it, will require someone to pay me in money that I can spend. People can still copy and redistribute my content (ie this post) and profit from it in various ways. The concept of a blockchain does nothing to prevent this.

Re: Web3 is centralized

#168

Post by fastball »

The central premise of this article is that agreeing to use a protocol makes that protocol "centralized". This is nonsense, and so the rest of the article falls apart.

Maybe the author is thinking of federation?

Re: Web3 is centralized

#169

Post by agumonkey »

neuroma wrote: post #72

It's fascinating how on hacker news one typically finds detailed, reasoned and thoughtful comments. However on the topic of crypto and web3 the comments reliably degenerate into partisan tit for tat, consisting mainly of poorly researched, unreasoned sound bytes. It's a pity because I'd love to hear quality thought on the space. My personal view is that crypto and Web3 "are a thing" (Mean Girls) and will continue to…

It is a thing but it's caught up in the viral mobthink of the web (amplified by the finance aspect) which makes it hard to evaluate unless you poke deep (groups like the one behind Cardano publish a lot)

Re: Web3 is centralized

#170

Post by ngcc_hk »

We need both decentralised internet and decentralised web.

Internet is an architecture issue. It was promised but not in real life. Due to isp and mobile intraf, like it or not, so easy to be firewall by national totalitarian country.

Web is originally decentralised as long as the people want to. There is nothing controlled you you must go through Facebook. That can change say if Facebook sent data to china as of now.

Frankly internet and web is still young. But we hope humanity can be free not bounded.

Prometheus please.

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