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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#411

Post by Toutouxc »

throwaway898989 wrote: post #284
azth wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Has lower-level officials that accept bribes How many countries does that leave? And why only low level, why not also high level? Doesn't that rule out the US as well? > - Has had airlines and planes for fewer than 5 decades Also sounds arbitrary.

my frend catch lionair flight , indonesian borneo to jakarta the plane acting funny on landing in jakarta, sort of jumping around, weird turbulence when it land, he look outside and see that one of the major aileron has fuselage completely missing and had been replace with electrical tape the plane was flying funny because one of the aileron was replaced with electrical tape from dollar store by international airline…

> see that one of the major aileron has fuselage completely missing

Sorry, but that doesn't mean anything.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#412

Post by gambiting »

EMM_386 wrote: post #120
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

>>Where's the basic pilotage here

I think the article was spot on about this - everyone was focused on managing the computers rather than actually flying. I wouldn't be surprised if no one was actually looking out of the window, but instead looking at the screens and wondering why the numbers aren't correct.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#413

Post by aaronmdjones »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #315
kayodelycaon wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought all takeoffs were manual. Is auto-takeoff out of testing already?

They are, but there's a system that almost shouts "VEE ONE!" and "VEE TWO!" over a loudspeaker in the cockpit, at least if the flight director is configured properly. I'm grossly simplifying but V1 is the point where you go "okay, are we SURE we're ready to go flying, y/n?" Around V1, if there are problems with the plane not conducive to flying (engine failure, fire, control surface malfunction especially), you rejec…

Not quite.

V1 is the takeoff abort decision speed; beyond V1, you are going too fast to stop safely in the runway length still available to you. If the plane is on fire and you've lost an engine and the computers and screens all die, but you've passed V1, you are still taking off anyway.

V2 is the safe single-engine-failure climb-out speed. This is the speed you pitch for after rotating, so that you're not flying too slowly that an engine failure would be dangerous.

Vr is almost always at V1 or a little bit higher; by definition, it cannot be before V1 (if you were rotating before V1, you wouldn't have to worry about whether you have enough runway left to not rotate) or after V2 (if you're at your single-engine-failure climb-out speed, you should've already rotated).

The V2 speed is entered into the autothrottle before takeoff (but the autothrottle won't maintain that speed; it will maintain a thrust setting instead). The flight director will command you to pitch up to maintain at least that speed at the current thrust, but only if you've correctly entered an altitude for it to take you up to (which did not happen in this case).

Essentially, they were relying on the flight director to command them to rotate, instead of rotating when Vr was called out. This is a catastrophic lapse in judgment.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#414

Post by taneq »

dheera wrote: post #389
nickjj wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…

Would you like to see a map of the nearby roads with no lables on it? I fyou zoom in to the point where a road is half the width of the screen I'll deign to add a label on one of the little side roads you don't care about.

Never will I ever tell you what the arterial route you're currently on is called though. Sucker.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#415

Post by gambiting »

dheera wrote: post #389
nickjj wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…

I just disabled Google assistant and all of its functions, it's beyond useless and probably the most frustrating thing I have ever used on my phone. And I don't mean just the voice controls, but all the "helpful" tips and suggestions are just bad and I can't stand them.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#416

Post by ricardobayes »

PKop wrote: post #327
nickjj wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

This is exactly why the mass delusion propagated by Elon that Tesla's have full self driving is terrifying, and why "self driving" in general is a sinister lie that endangers the public.

After working in the industry, I can safely say self-driving is a massively profitable lie. It can work in limited instances, but I don't think we'll have full self driving aka level 5 in urban environments until infrastructure changes. You simply need 5G/V2X for that. Just relying on cameras will not work. On that page, I have my concerns about EVs in general, who knows what the long-term health effects are for sitting on top of a HV battery and being surrounded by that electro-smog.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#417

Post by nopzor »

throwawaygh wrote: post #325
ecshafer wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there actually a pilot shortage, or is there a pay shortage? Most of the people I know who wanted to be pilots bounced off of the extremely low salary for a very long time. Unless someone does military and gets a lot of hours, and even then not always, they are stuck paying for their own license then making a bit above minimum wage flying between cleveland to nashville or something like that. If the airlines paid…

Pilots for large airlines are paid very well (100k-200k+). The training is expensive and time-consuming, but not that expensive or that time-consuming, if we compare to e.g. medicine or science. There is a low-paid and debt-heavy portion of the career. However, Medical students aren't paid and even the lowest-paid pilot is making more than the average phd candidate.

new commercial pilots who are flying small airplanes for large airlines in the usa (eg “united express” pilots) barely crack 50k usd salary. and this is after big pay rises the last year.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#418

Post by Toutouxc »

jakub_g wrote: post #133
ashtonkem wrote: post #26

I cannot imagine how unbelievably loud and damaging having a 777 fly 75 feet above my house would be.

I live on the coast, 15km from major airport and sometimes in the summer planes fly directly over my apartment, including really huge ones, just a few storeys above (I'd say 100-150 ft, maybe more). With open windows, it's madly loud. With closed windows it's a loud but somehow tolerable.

Perhaps an order of magnitude more? You'd expect an airliner at about 4000 ft at 15 km from the airport, assuming it's trying to land. It's also illegal to fly lower than 1000 ft above inhabited areas in most of the world.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#419

Post by rapnie »

sundvor wrote: post #408
dheera wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…

That's brilliant, and so funny because it's true. I've been wondering why we haven't really had any advances in our voice commands for nearly a decade - things like zooming and such are actions I've long wanted to be able to perform. Even that rotate map.. when your car is shown at the bottom and map is hard locked to current heading, when navigation is about to do a sharp right you end up with zero visibility of the…

> they're not even trying.

Wasn't their core business Advertising? Guess they are just not into these sidetracks much.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#420

Post by dncornholio »

onethought wrote: post #402
PKop wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better sel…

It doesn’t follow that errors will be catestrophic. It could be the car just fails to handle edge case situations and just stops… granted on a highway that’s bad but everywhere else, that’s a hassle to traffic at worst. Also highway full self driving is much closer to being a solved problem. Even the failures you see in the beta of Tesla FSD, aren’t catestrophic. The worst I’ve seen is a curb strikes in terms of actu…

I just looked up a random video of someone testing FSD 10.8 and in the first few minutes, it failed to signal before changing lanes and it almost caused an accident. All the while the driver is saying how good it is and how comfortable he is.. The car drives not smoothly at all and does random braking when around pedestrians.

The car also features a yoke instead of a wheel. Which makes holding the yoke while autopilot is driving almost impossible.

Autonomous driving is a mess.

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