"You’ll want to look at the right two columns, with the left column being the altitude, and the right column being the speed."
actually i think i'd rather look at plots rather than images of tables of numbers. smh.
Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
401–410 of 580 posts
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#402Earlier quoted context omitted.
The premise behind self driving cars that can handle most situations themselves relies on the assumption that a human operator is paying attention and can take over in situations the computer can't handle. I'm not a pilot, but it's likely that assumption can hold while flying at cruising altitude, but not so much when driving in various inconsistent road and traffic conditions.
>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better sel…
It doesn’t follow that errors will be catestrophic. It could be the car just fails to handle edge case situations and just stops… granted on a highway that’s bad but everywhere else, that’s a hassle to traffic at worst. Also highway full self driving is much closer to being a solved problem.
Even the failures you see in the beta of Tesla FSD, aren’t catestrophic. The worst I’ve seen is a curb strikes in terms of actual “accidents”
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#403Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the US this is explicitly part of training for major airlines. They will line up failures in The simulator and have the pilots solve/fly through the issue. You can’t fly until you pass these checks
Is it really unexpected failures or do they discuss scenario / do you expect one of a few typical scenarios? Really throwing failures at pilots without them knowing what's going on seems to mean too many fail or rather there is not enough time to train pre-discussed scenarios and do scenarios that aren't announced. I'm not sure it's really what you'd want.
It's not that unexpected, because you do recurrent training in the simulator every 6 months. And there is a set of emergencies that is done every time, for example engine failure / fire during takeoff must be done.
All pilots are trained to know the immediate actions required for a whole set of scenarios (we call these memory items) the point of the sim check is not to learn them but to check that you know all of them and to keep some recent experience. Because these things happen so rarely in real flights.
I've had for example only once had an engine failure after takeoff and it was a partial failure without fire. In the simulator I think I've done it at least 100 times and most times they put it on fire for good measure so you're in a hurry to get on the ground. The real world one was very uneventful, return to the airport, taxi back, do a lot of paperwork.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#404The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…
Sounds like they had their holiday period B team both in the crew that flew the plane and in the department that wrote the memo.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#405Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.
Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…
Last time I tried, I couldn't even figure out how to exit navigation using voice. I'm sure it's possible, even easy, but the combination of not knowing the right incantation, car noise, language issues (does it expect German or English commands?) and overall stress meant I just ended up muting the sound system, which is a physical button.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#406Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…
> I catch heat every time I mention that air crew training and certification standards are not uniform across the globe and that I am reluctant to fly on many foreign-flag carriers. (However, Emirates and most EU-flag carriers are ones that I would not hesitate to fly on.) Has anyone made some sort of a rough list of which carriers one can feel safe on?
No post body was provided.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#407Earlier quoted context omitted.
>human operator is paying attention Think of how silly this is though. You offload driving to a car, then...demand passenger give absolute attention every second that car operates itself. For one, this is a pointless tool if you have to monitor it all the time. For another, it is impossible that humans will be able to focus their attentions fully when they aren't really doing anything to drive the car. The better sel…
It doesn’t follow that errors will be catestrophic. It could be the car just fails to handle edge case situations and just stops… granted on a highway that’s bad but everywhere else, that’s a hassle to traffic at worst. Also highway full self driving is much closer to being a solved problem. Even the failures you see in the beta of Tesla FSD, aren’t catestrophic. The worst I’ve seen is a curb strikes in terms of actu…
What you are describing is level 4. And if tesla were anywhere near that that would be freaking brilliant.
Tesla FSD has many deaths and countless serious accidents under it's belt. Which doesn't necessarily have to be that bad, but as expected a computer doesn't make the same kind of mistakes that a human does and the kind of mistakes that tesla does doesn't inspire confidence (but rather nightmare fuel that you just can't wake up from).
They should be banned until they have level 4 and take responsibility for their cars actions. Blaming it on a human driver and calling it a day is ludicrous.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#408Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.
Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do. "OK Google zoom in the map by 2X" nope "OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode" nope "OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me" nope "OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds" nope "OK Google show me satellite maps instead" nope "OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"…
That's brilliant, and so funny because it's true.
I've been wondering why we haven't really had any advances in our voice commands for nearly a decade - things like zooming and such are actions I've long wanted to be able to perform.
Even that rotate map.. when your car is shown at the bottom and map is hard locked to current heading, when navigation is about to do a sharp right you end up with zero visibility of the rest of the route as they still haven't bothered doing a projection and modifying rotation dynamically - they're not even trying.
All your examples are exactly the kinds of things that an intelligent system should be able to respond to, in order to be useful.
Getting that haircut ordered is the _last_ thing we need.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#409Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is pretty sad. Emirates, for all their glory doesn't pay their pilots well. I mean, what's the point in spending on stuff like fancy first class seats and all that without paying pilots well. True irony. Fanciest and the most comfortable airline for the passengers, the exact opposite for the pilots.
It's not just pay, it's also very demanding schedules (which is a safety concern, many incidents happen due to crew fatigue) and zero labor protection in UAE laws. I know a few ex-Emirates pilots that got fired during the pandemic, they were treated like trash almost literally thrown out of the country.
Even for the rich, there are benefits to living in a society that treats workers well.
Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff
#410Is this a cultural problem where some areas of the world tend to defer to authority even in the face of obvious error on the part of the authority? In this case the flight computer? I thought this was solved by training none-western pilots, in particular co-pilots, to be empowered to challenge decisions by another pilot instead of just doing nothing.
The pilots haven't been identified so we don't know about their cultural background