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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#381

Post by th3_nsa »

nickjj wrote: post #219
EMM_386 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

The phenomenon is called Death by GPS. Explained very well in this article : https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/death-by-gps/

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#382

Post by raverbashing »

EMM_386 wrote: post #120
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> Where's the basic pilotage here?

> How you get to this level of incompetence flying a 777 is far beyond my understanding.

Well, training that emphasizes automation rather than manual flying and thinking (an even bigger issue in Eastern countries, see Asiana on SFO) but that carries over to the top levels.

People that train on the subject because it "pays well" or because of fame rather than because they like it.

People that have some other favourable attributes to flying Emirates.

Lack of CRM on the cockpit.

But anyway, these are contributing factors. You could argue that checklist are an automation step and those guys missed it. Apparently 4 people were fired, and I really can't disagree with this.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#383

Post by anaganisk »

zaphirplane wrote: post #85

I am assuming pilots have had less flight hours over the last couple of years due to Covid Are pilots making it up in simulators or are they rusty (no offence)

I may be wrong but we just don’t forget how to drive or how to code after a vacation? It just takes some time to get used to work again, but that lasts for few days. And we opened back months ago. That was a weird statement to read for me.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#384

Post by namdnay »

deepGem wrote: post #339
t0mas88 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't, because their working conditions are terrible compared to those other airlines. Nobody with thousands of hours of jet time would ever switch from a US or EU legacy carrier to someone like Emirates.

This is pretty sad. Emirates, for all their glory doesn't pay their pilots well. I mean, what's the point in spending on stuff like fancy first class seats and all that without paying pilots well. True irony. Fanciest and the most comfortable airline for the passengers, the exact opposite for the pilots.

It’s more a question of Emirates being a relative newcomer with no strong unionization, and therefore not having to align with the absurdly high salaries the legacy carriers are saddled with. Compared with other new airlines (EasyJet, Ryanair etc) Emirates pay quite well

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#386

Post by nate_meurer »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #271
WalterBright wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad flew for 20 years in the Air Force. He more than once defied procedure that would have put him in jeopardy on a flight. He told me he was not going to die because of a bureaucratic rule written by someone whose ass was safely behind a desk. One was when formation flying, pilots were to keep both eyes on the lead, and mimic his flying. This led to several crashes where the whole team died because the lead flew…

Yes about the airbus but the problem there is also that there is no feedback, so the second pilot can't feel what the other one is doing. But in that case (I think you mean AF447) there was a lot more going on with confusing warning indications. They did however fly a perfectly functioning aircraft straight into the sea.

It wasn't quite perfectly functioning. The pitot tubes had frozen, depriving the crew of reliable airspeed information.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#387

Post by zoomablemind »

Scarry as it already appears, it also looks as if the flight were considered overloaded. Thus longer speedup, shallow climb. Was their landing profile also out of ordinary?

Wrong details keyed in, or some undisclosed and supposedly heavy cargo? Though such a Bond-style mystery may not make any reason to it, as the destination was IAD. Well, the pilots should feel lucky that everyone is safe and sound.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#388

Post by t0mas88 »

deepGem wrote: post #339
t0mas88 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't, because their working conditions are terrible compared to those other airlines. Nobody with thousands of hours of jet time would ever switch from a US or EU legacy carrier to someone like Emirates.

This is pretty sad. Emirates, for all their glory doesn't pay their pilots well. I mean, what's the point in spending on stuff like fancy first class seats and all that without paying pilots well. True irony. Fanciest and the most comfortable airline for the passengers, the exact opposite for the pilots.

It's not just pay, it's also very demanding schedules (which is a safety concern, many incidents happen due to crew fatigue) and zero labor protection in UAE laws. I know a few ex-Emirates pilots that got fired during the pandemic, they were treated like trash almost literally thrown out of the country.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#389

Post by dheera »

nickjj wrote: post #219
EMM_386 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable that the pilot's didn't realize they were doing 215 knots while still ON THE GROUND and only decided to pull back on the yoke once they were nearing the end of the runway. They should have at least seen the end of the runway coming up and wondered why they weren't airborne yet. The ends are colored in amber and red as it gets closer to the end, it should be pretty obvious something is wrong. Pull ba…

> Pilots are getting far too comfortable flying what the computer is telling them instead of flying the actual aircraft. I'm not a pilot but this stuff does concern me. If you Google around for GPS related accidents with cars the results are pretty mind boggling. There's a number of cases of folks driving straight into a lake because GPS told them to go that way. This plane incident reminds me of that.

Not to mention the GPS doesn't do half the things I want it to do.

"OK Google zoom in the map by 2X"

nope

"OK Google don't hide all the businesses while on navigation mode"

nope

"OK Google show all street labels don't hide them from me"

nope

"OK Google rotate the map to the right 30 degrees for 5 seconds"

nope

"OK Google show me satellite maps instead"

nope

"OK Google pause notifications from Facebook while driving"

nope

... I bet most people have to fiddle with their screens due to OK Google's utter incompetence.

Meanwhile the people on the OK Google team are busy figuring out how to arrange a damn haircut which I never needed.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#390

Post by CamperBob2 »

woofcat wrote: post #245
CamperBob2 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the automation feature in question is even available during takeoff. What would be a situation in which use of the FD at this point in the flight would be a preferable option?

IFR?

IFR doesn't mean "Let go of the controls and let HAL sort it out." This equipment seems like it's meant to assist with pilot duties, not dictate to them.
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