Live data from Hacker News

Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

mjg59.dreamwidth.org

31–37 of 37 posts

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#31

I'm still waiting for someone to explain any legitimate use of kernel lockdown. To me, it just seems like a tool that makes it easier for bad guys to do tivoization.

The historic goal of the free software movement has been to make sure that users have freedom over their computing environment. Implicit in that is the idea that other people do not have freedom to mess with your computing environment, that the computer runs exactly what you tell it to run, no more and no less.

To that end, the goal is in fact similar from a technical perspective to TiVoization! The only difference is that TiVoization is where the manufacturer of a device controls the device after it's been sold to a new owner, and lockdown is where the owner controls their own device. For the most part, this is a social constraint, not a technical one.

It shouldn't be surprising that the technical tools are similar between the two opposed social goals of user freedom and corporate control. The entire idea of free software licensing depends on the idea that software is copyrightable and its copyrights can be enforced in court. The free software movement demands access to source code to enable user freedom, but companies also demand access to source code for business continuity reasons using source code escrow services (if not for ongoing access - Microsoft licenses Windows source code to major customers, for instance). The GNU Project demands their contributors sign papers assigning copyright so that GNU is in a better legal position to enforce licenses, but so do proprietary software development shops, for exactly the same reason. They just are achieving different things.

But there is an important way in which this has technical implications: the owner of the device needs to be able to change. TiVo does not need to change who is the admin. That is why the lockdown work is harder. Remember that TiVoization actually happened without any of this work, and in fact happened so long ago that barely anyone remembers what a "TiVo" is.

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#32
post #3

This would make a huge difference in battery life for Linux laptops with secure boot enabled. Lots of modern laptops don’t even properly support S3 sleep properly (looking at you dell) and want to be able to hibernate to save power.

> Lots of modern laptops don’t even properly support S3 sleep properly (looking at you dell) and want to be able to hibernate to save power. "modern standby" is such a scam and shit show. And completely opposite that, I was a bit shocked how aggressive modern macos (at least on M1 machines) are at hibernating, I have had to get used to `caffeinate` long-running process because on battery if that's not in use as soon…

And this is why I am forced to use mac, where I can safely close the lid and expect the battery to last

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#33

The amount of setup required to make a laptop go into hibernation and boot to the same state every time is pretty substantial: https://austingwalters.com/increasing-battery-life-on-an-arc... This would make things a tad easier

And this article doesn't even tackle encrypted-dm and swap on btrfs which is even less straightforward :

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management/Suspend_an...

I have it working and it's wonderful tho...

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#34
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of modern laptops don’t even properly support S3 sleep properly (looking at you dell) and want to be able to hibernate to save power. "modern standby" is such a scam and shit show. And completely opposite that, I was a bit shocked how aggressive modern macos (at least on M1 machines) are at hibernating, I have had to get used to `caffeinate` long-running process because on battery if that's not in use as soon…

And this is why I am forced to use mac, where I can safely close the lid and expect the battery to last

Unless you have an SD card in due to them charging 3-5X more than market rates for storage

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#35
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of modern laptops don’t even properly support S3 sleep properly (looking at you dell) and want to be able to hibernate to save power. "modern standby" is such a scam and shit show. And completely opposite that, I was a bit shocked how aggressive modern macos (at least on M1 machines) are at hibernating, I have had to get used to `caffeinate` long-running process because on battery if that's not in use as soon…

> "modern standby" is such a scam and shit show. On x86, maybe. Try booting an M1 Mac, turning off the screen (without closing the lid - that's what makes it go to sleep instantly), SSHing in, and running a shell loop that prints out the date every minute. I left it running and the thing didn't even drop from 100% battery after 3 hours, when macOS finally decided to go into real standby and that killed the connection…

[deleted]

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#36
post #26
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I explored the situation on a few dells, and they have obvious bugs in their bios ACPI tables: it's as if they had been written by an intern discovering this technology. Long story short, on at least a few ones I explored deeply (The 7275 or the 9250 can't remember) the dell just can't sleep right, even on Windows. What saves the day is Windows proper sleep support, including hybrid sleep, that prepares for the worst…

The default sleep budget on my Dell is 30%. It's willing to spend 30% of the battery doing absolutely nothing useful with the lid closed. Who designed this...

The same Dell intern that wrote their ACPI implementation?

Re: Update on Linux hibernation support when lockdown is enabled

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why I am forced to use mac, where I can safely close the lid and expect the battery to last

Unless you have an SD card in due to them charging 3-5X more than market rates for storage

that's not accurate they just force you to buy the most expensive storage option there is
Post reply on HN