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EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

reuters.com

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Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#61

Post by mulmen »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #38
nathan_phoenix wrote: post #12

For anyone wondering why gas, it's gas only in specific cases. > Investments in natural gas power plants would also be deemed green if they produce emissions below 270g of CO2 equivalent per kilowatt hour (kWh), replace a more polluting fossil fuel plant, receive a construction permit by Dec. 31 2030 and plan to switch to low-carbon gases by the end of 2035.

Yes, it's oddly specific but apparently intended to allow countries to classify energy from such plants as "green" and treat it as such when buying/selling or taxing it. That is important because a lot of companies that are interested in buying green energy in order to reduce their carbon emissions would care about their energy being labeled as green. There is a lot of book keeping that is happening related to this a…

> People are going to notice this and call bullshit on that.

And they will be right. If it emits carbon it isn't green, it really is that simple.

By giving themselves this loophole the EU is undermining the market forces that will make green energy viable. We don't need to find economical energy sources anymore. We need to dump money into green energy now and last month and a decade ago. The price doesn't matter, just build true green energy and subsidize it until it becomes economical.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#62

Post by mulmen »

horsawlarway wrote: post #30
dathinab wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still kinda rediculus IMHO. Nuclear power it's climate but but environment/human friendly. So I can understand that. But natural gas isn't green however I look at it. It's clearly better then cush l coal, but but green. So it shouldn't be allowed to be labeled as such. Instead we should add a label for better but but really good tech, like yellow or so.

The labeling matters because it influences funds allocation. "green" in this sense just means it's eligible to receive funding/tax status that is otherwise not available. It's not a judgement on whether the technology is carbon neutral.

> it's eligible to receive funding/tax status [...]

That's literally the entire problem.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#64

Post by Gwypaas »

kergonath wrote: post #59
Gwypaas wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renewables are what you should compare nuclear with. And by your own stats they win even there. Framing it as a contest versus fossil fuels is building a strawman nowadays.

Go on, then, compare away. Both in terms of deaths/kWh and CO2/kWh, nuclear is equivalent or better than most renewable you could name. There are arguments against nuclear, but these aren’t them.

Yep. So close you can call it equal, unless future deaths from groundwater pollution where to happen from leakage. So lets discount that and focus on the side which allocates capital and brings projects to completion. The cheapest renewables are currently a magnitude cheaper per KWH.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#65

Post by kergonath »

retinaros wrote: post #23

in france gov passed a law that will give a bad grade to gas heated houses (if the grade is bad you cant rent your house) and a good one to electricity. oh and because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it. we are really in the middle of a green idiocracy

> oh and because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it

This is a gross over-simplification. Most European countries are both importers and exporters at any point in time, but France is a notable net exporter, and actually stabilises the German grid.

The French government is inconsistent and unbelievably short-sighted, but not because it wants more electric heating. We need to get rid of gas as soon as possible for any uses that does not absolutely require it. Electricity and heat pumps are safer and better for domestic uses.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#66

Post by errcorrectcode »

The interpretation of the policy reads like "It's not greenwashing, I promise." It comes across as more delay to assist profiteering on dirty, extractive FFs and distract from the climate change emergency by not addressing net carbon negative energy production.

Solar and pumped energy storage are great, but we need fusion power ASAP too.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#67

Post by trembonator »

user_7832 wrote: post #41
yholio wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plan to switch to low-carbon gases by the end of 2035. It's a handout to the dying hydrogen industry of which EU was a huge supporter of. The electric revolution killed any chances of hydrogen powered cars, and the new hype in the industry is using excess renewable electricity to store in hydrogen batteries, which would then supply process heat or residential heating with zero emissions. This is all a bunch of crap…

I'm curious on why you're pessimistic on hydrogen. I agree that cars are likely not the best use of fuel cells (heavy vehicles are able to utilize H2's strengths much more), but in a future based on renewables hydrogen allows you to store energy in a very dense way. Lithium batteries are acceptably heavy/expensive at small scales, but how do you think will supply vary to meet demand in the medium-long term without a…

No post body was provided.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#69

Post by kergonath »

retinaros wrote: post #49
scrollaway wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misinformation in both paragraphs. The “bad grade” takes a lot into account and between all the exceptions it is primarily aimed at new constructions. As for your second paragraph, I have no idea what you’re smoking. We’re Europe’s largest exporter of electricity, thanks to our nuclear power.

before shouting misinformation you might want to inform yourself first paragraph I never said having gas was exclusive of getting a bad grade. however gas is now considered a bad energy and will reduce your grade. and it is one of the key factors. when your investment is six digits or more and a stupid law destroy it you know it. and no it is not for new constructions. in paris a huge chunk of the old apartments have…

How do you square this:

> France retains its position as the leading exporter in Europe with a total exporter of 43.2 TWh

with this:

> because of europe we import electricity from germany that is burning coal for it

?

If you are such a keen observer on the electricity market, then surely you know that France is always importing from somewhere, and as its biggest neighbours, it is logical to see Germany there? There was indeed some bad timing with the maintenance of some of the reactors. It is not the decision of the government, but if the operator (EDF) and the regulator (ASN). And the EU has fuck all to do with it.

Re: EU drafts plan to label gas and nuclear investments as green

#70

Post by nousermane »

nitrogen wrote: post #50
neximo64 wrote: post #33

There was an insecticide ban (Neonicotinoids) not so long ago, i.e a "complete ban", but then I saw that it didn't apply to greenhouses - where it had more than 80% of its use prior to the ban. After that alot of the directives that come from the commission, especially involving climate change, if you look at it properly is just greenwashing. France is maybe about the only country that is genuine about it. [1] https:…

Given that bees are the biggest likely victims of neonicotinoids, isn't restricting their use to greenhouses exactly what we want? Let bugs outside be, keep bugs inside under control?

...except greenhouses are not exactly hermetically sealed, especially during summer.
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