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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#91

Post by selectodude »

csunbird wrote: post #73
sokoloff wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

777 has a takeoff configuration warning system, so unlikely. Far more likely is the pilots simply failed to command sufficient pitch up (higher pitch gives a lower airspeed and higher climb rate [at least in the airspeed and pitch regime we’re talking about here]). Takeoff configuration warning can be silenced, but is an abort before the 80 knot callout.

Disclaimer: My experience in piloting is just a couple of hours flying planes in kerbal space program. Wouldn't that much speed cause the plane to ascent naturally, even with zero pitch, just by the body lift? (Although, it is quite possible that real life planes have negative body lift, I have no idea)

They probably were given a command to stay at 4000 above ground (AGL) level after takeoff. The plane was to level off until further instructions from ATC. Since the plane was set to sea level on takeoff, the plane tried to level off at 4000 ft above sea level which…is not good. The plane was pitched down to descend.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#92

Post by throwawayboise »

alkonaut wrote: post #63

Why did it take so long to correct? The computers must have been beeping and screaming about “overspeed” and all kinds of warnings. Sensory overload?

Some warnings are inhibited below a certain altitude or on the ground. I don't know if "overspeed" is one of them, though.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#93

Post by wjossey »

pilot7378535 wrote: post #76
diebeforei485 wrote: post #33

> suggesting [...]the previous flight crew had left the altitude setting at [...] 00000 feet Does the system really display as "00000"? That seems like an odd design choice, I'd have thought just a single "0" would be far more legible in this scenario, especially if it's on a 7-segment display. I don't think passengers would have noticed this as anything other than a regular takeoff, because ATC does request slow cli…

Speaking of bad UX choices, the FAA is constantly dropping one or two or more digits from numbers like altitudes, runway lengths, heading, timestamps, etc. For example, "the runway from 180° is 5200 feet long" becomes "RWY18 52" which I suppose you get used to, but it's just begging for mixups.

As a student pilot, this drives me nuts. The volume of abbreviations, especially in NOTAMS, METARs, etc, is a bit obscene.

What’s wonderful too is that the abbreviations are often based on non English words as well, so they aren’t intuitive. As an example, instead of typing “mist” in a METAR it is “BR” based on the French word brume.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#94

Post by jdavis703 »

sokoloff wrote: post #10

Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…

> My prediction is that almost every pax had no idea how close to dying they came until they read about it later.

This is why you should keep the window shade open during taxi, takeoff and landing (a handful of airlines require this, but IME it’s the minority). In the event of a crash or other incident you also want to know what’s outside the plane. Maybe there is burning debris on your side, so you want to exit from the other?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#95

Post by amelius »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #49
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

> It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. I am not a pilot, but that's exactly what I thought when I read the memo too. They should be putting responsibility for the next flight on the next flight's crew, not the prior flight's crew. Train each crew to assume the plane they're prepping for their next flight is FUBAR in every way, checklist e…

Perhaps this game should be part of the UX of cockpit controls: find the error, or lose your permits.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#96

Post by jdavis703 »

dataflow wrote: post #81
sokoloff wrote: post #10

Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…

> I catch heat every time I mention that air crew training and certification standards are not uniform across the globe and that I am reluctant to fly on many foreign-flag carriers. (However, Emirates and most EU-flag carriers are ones that I would not hesitate to fly on.) Has anyone made some sort of a rough list of which carriers one can feel safe on?

I’m probably going to get downvoted for this, but focus on large, legacy airlines based in countries that have a long safety record (not just in terms of crashes, but also just general approach to safety).

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#97

Post by inglor_cz »

dataflow wrote: post #81
sokoloff wrote: post #10

Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…

> I catch heat every time I mention that air crew training and certification standards are not uniform across the globe and that I am reluctant to fly on many foreign-flag carriers. (However, Emirates and most EU-flag carriers are ones that I would not hesitate to fly on.) Has anyone made some sort of a rough list of which carriers one can feel safe on?

This is the list of airlines banned from flying into the EU on safety grounds.

https://transport.ec.europa.eu/transport-themes/eu-air-safet...

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#98

Post by proactivesvcs »

dehrmann wrote: post #66

I'm surprised commercial planes don't do full software reset before each flight, and especially before a new crew takes over. Checklists only get you so much.

I'm surprised they don't do a full reset then set every checklist variable to an invalid state, in which the aircraft will not permit starting until all have been set by the flight crew.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#99

Post by jacquesm »

amelius wrote: post #95
SkyMarshal wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. I am not a pilot, but that's exactly what I thought when I read the memo too. They should be putting responsibility for the next flight on the next flight's crew, not the prior flight's crew. Train each crew to assume the plane they're prepping for their next flight is FUBAR in every way, checklist e…

Perhaps this game should be part of the UX of cockpit controls: find the error, or lose your permits.

Hehe. Gamification for the win... I really don't want to think about the red team version of that.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#100

Post by jacquesm »

topspin wrote: post #86
onphonenow wrote: post #16

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

> I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. Why imagine there is hope of that? Is there some question as to the credibility of the reporting here? If this memo claim were fake I imagine Emirates would deny the report and initiate some lawsuits. The story linked here is based on the reporting[1] of one Gilbert Ott of godsavethepoints.com over five days ago which includes a image of the…

You'd hope a regulator would turn their wandering eye to this airline, both from a hiring, operations and management perspective. There are errors on all of those.
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