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Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

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Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#31
Read what is the current top comment in the article linked above, from a U.S. captain also flying 777's, for the list of checks the crew apparently missed.

Biggest flag is flying pilot apparently selecting autopilot on immediately after takeoff. Emirates note to their crews,is even more bizarre. Like an hospital reminding Anesthesiologists to check if patients are fully knocked out before operations.

Incident still under investigation but it looks bad.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#32

Why are knots used in aviation over kph?

From my understanding there are two advantages: - So that when kph/mph is heard a pilot knows they're referencing ground speed, whereas knots is air speed. - Pilots use latitude/longitude, and a knot is "exactly equal to 1/60th of a degree of latitude. A 1/60th of a degree of latitude is known as a minute of latitude. Therefore, a knot is equal to one minute of distance. There are 90 degrees from the equator to the p…

seems slightly odd to use an angular unit for airspeed; the linear equivalent would technically depend on altitude. I guess airplanes don't actually fly high enough for that to matter.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#33
> suggesting [...]the previous flight crew had left the altitude setting at [...] 00000 feet

Does the system really display as "00000"? That seems like an odd design choice, I'd have thought just a single "0" would be far more legible in this scenario, especially if it's on a 7-segment display.

I don't think passengers would have noticed this as anything other than a regular takeoff, because ATC does request slow climbs (ie. slower rate of ascent) every now and then.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#34

Pilot (piston engine, with only around 20 hours of light jet dual). As a pax on this flight, I might not have noticed much unless I was looking out the window. This seems like a fault of the crew (obviously), but probably more on the PNF (pilot not flying) than the PF (pilot flying). Article says 4 pilots were on board, but fails to mention that 2 of them (relief pilots) were likely not in the cockpit on the departur…

Maximum Flap (Placard) Speeds for 777-300 Flaps KIAS 1 255 5 235 15 215 20 200 25 190 30 180 262 is way high for 30 degrees with slats.

You don't take off with 30 degrees of flaps though, fortunately.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#35

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

The incident description seems incomplete. With the high takeoff speed and slow climb rate, is it possible that the main error was an incorrect flaps setting?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#36

TL;DR - Don't screw with the defaults (MCP) after landing, especially when it's unnecessary and when the next takeoff crew likely will not remember to set it to proper value before takeoff. I wonder if this is not a detectable condition for the flight software - maybe in some cases you want the MCP to be set to low? Otherwise autopilot could either auto correct it or issue a warning?

This was 100% pilot error. You don't ever "follow the flight director" to determine when to rotate, you use the airspeed indicator.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#37

Why is it even possible to enter a desired altitude of 0 feet into an automatic pilot? As a layman, it’s hard for me to imagine why anyone flying a 777 would want to maintain an altitude of zero at full speed for more than a few seconds (if that).

Just a guess, is that the target altitude? Meaning they set it to zero during landing approach?

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#38
post #35

The memo from Emirates about not setting altitude in system to airport altitude is so weird. I really hope that's not the actual message Emirates is putting out there. It doesn't matter was in system. You run your checklists and configure for your own flight / your own departure etc. Memo should be to training / recruitment - where did you find these pilots to fly a 777? So they obviously didn't pre-flight the flight…

The incident description seems incomplete. With the high takeoff speed and slow climb rate, is it possible that the main error was an incorrect flaps setting?

777 has a takeoff configuration warning system, so unlikely. Far more likely is the pilots simply failed to command sufficient pitch up (higher pitch gives a lower airspeed and higher climb rate [at least in the airspeed and pitch regime we’re talking about here]).

Takeoff configuration warning can be silenced, but is an abort before the 80 knot callout.

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#39

Why is it even possible to enter a desired altitude of 0 feet into an automatic pilot? As a layman, it’s hard for me to imagine why anyone flying a 777 would want to maintain an altitude of zero at full speed for more than a few seconds (if that).

I'm guessing it's done on approach so that the autopilot won't keep the plane from landing -- which would beg the question of why the autopilot would even be on during takeoff or landing.

As one would guess, it shouldn't have been on. Insight comes from a comment in TFA:

"I’m a captain at a U.S. major airline with a lot of time in 777s. Something this doesn’t mention is the that even if ground level was set into the mode control panel, the aircraft wouldn’t have descended if it was being hand flown. That means that the flying pilot here selected the autopilot on immediately after takeoff. This is unusual at Western carriers as we like to hand fly. To me this indicates a lack of experience or confidence or both."

Re: Boeing 777 departing Dubai nearly had a major incident after takeoff

#40
Setting autopilot immediately on takeoff is very tempting because it massively reduces workload vs hand flying during a critical flight stage (high workload). So there’s a strong temptation to do this. But if you miss a few checklist items and don’t fully understand the systems, this is the result. The numbers seem to indicate they didn’t immediately recover the situation either I.e immediately switch to hand flying and adjust throttle. At 1000 ft they’re still 80 knots too fast.

I also wonder about the decision to continue on after overspeeding the flaps. Takeoff flaps with full load on the 777-300ER is 15 degrees. Max airspeed with that setting is 215. They hit 260 at 175ft.

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