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Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

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Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that is true. If you look at how larger residential areas looked in the States historically, you'll these placese were very livable, since there weee no cars. The main issue in the US is that at some point the jobs of city and regional planners were hijacked by car industry lobbyists. The current state of affairs is what followed.

Far before cars, people left those cities for more space and fewer neighbors. It’s the foundation of our narrative.

Are you sure this is what really happened? The US built cities like any other country on this planet, but the influx of immigrants and people's pursuit of wealth pushed them to settle new lands and establish new population centres.

What's more, until not so long ago, US cities looked differently. Then a lot of what was already built got destroyed to build motorways and huge parking lots. If you look at aerial photos of US cities from around '30s[0], you will see much denser, more walkable cities. Then take a look at what General Motors proposed with its Futurama at the World's Fair; it is the essence of what cities in the US are currently, albeit cranked up to 11.

Some of Europe's cities took the road that GM pushed, and one very prominent example has been Amsterdam[1], which is currently known as one of the least car-oriented cities in the world. The changes have been reverted in the EU, but not in the US, and that is the current state of affairs.

On the last note: US historically has been a place, when local communities had to be strong, strictly because of its roots in colonizing the continent. Without local communities that then shaped into larger organizations, the history would be very different, and States would be under Britain's rule for much longer, maybe even to this day.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/comments/bkkfww/1930_aerial_... [1] https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in...

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#362
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s pretty easy to live in big cities in America ( Seattle, SF, Boston, Chicago, parts of LA ) without a car or without regularly using a car.

I only somewhat agree. First of all, it depends if you have to commute to an office in some industrial park (even if it's only one or two days a week). Then there's the question of where your friends live, whether you regularly do activities outside the city, etc. Zipcar and Uber definitely make it easier not to own a car. But my observation of people I know in SF who don't own a car is that they make ample use of bo…

If you live in Japan without a car you will probably end up taking a taxi from time to time. They are lined up outside the major train stations. Overall, relying on mass-transit probably is more pleasant there, and takes less lifestyle-modifications, but you still have less freedom than owning a car. And probably take longer to get around usually. Also in plenty of Japan, by the way, you definitely need a car to get by reasonably. It's not like countries in Europe where half the population lives in the capital city.

If your goal is to avoid any sort of exercise (and the "forced" exercise is one of the biggest reasons to go carless in my opinion) then yes large sections of US cities may seem inacccessible without a car. But if you like walking like I do (at least up to a half-mile or so) then you can live just fine in US cities without a car, in my experience. I've done it all over.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true? As a case study, Boston’s population is about 700k, call it a million people living in a genuinely urban environment in greater Boston, of a metro area of 3 million. I think there’s more suburbanites than urbanites in most American metros.

Where do the suburbanites work? That tunnel, rail, or subway is allowing who to get into and out of the city easier? > The Green Line Extension (GLX) project will extend the existing MBTA Green Line service north of Lechmere Station and into the communities of Somerville, Cambridge, and Medford.

GLX is primarily about serving the urban community better.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

murder per capita is an important statistic for a city, but it can be misleading. for one thing, it depends a lot on how city borders are drawn. for example, baltimore city usually shows up in top five lists for per capita murders, and indeed it is an unusually violent place. but unlike many (most?) american cities, baltimore county is completely separate from the enclosed city. if you calculated murders per capital…

IIRC St. Louis has a similar arrangement with the surrounding county. Addressing the context, though, Baltimore certainly belongs in any discussion of unpleasant downtowns. Altercations are a potential issue even driving (more so than walking actually). But there's also increasingly little to even walk to. The nightlife and culture all moved to the surrounding neighborhoods, now you just go downtown for the aquarium…

> Altercations are a potential issue even driving (more so than walking actually)

are you referring to the complimentary car wash at president and lombard? but yeah I agree, there's a lot that's wrong with baltimore's downtown.

if you assume that most people have to commute to work, it does make sense to have a downtown that's mostly office buildings and well-connected via public transit. so I kinda expect most downtowns to be kinda boring, not sure why you would expect them to be fun to walk around it. of course, nowhere in baltimore is particularly well-served by public transit, and the downtown is not merely boring; it's downright unpleasant and somewhat unsafe.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Tokyo for almost five years, and owned a car while I was there ... I don't think this is a question of the city being "designed around cars". There's a lot more "design for cars" in Tokyo than there is in, say, New York City - look at the Shuto expressway with its multiple rings of highways that run around the city and the radial routes that join them together; its elevated sections and tunnels through the…

>You have to provide documentation of owning a parking space in order to be able to register a vehicle. This is amazing! Free parking is a scourge in urban areas

I can't agree, just because it works for tokyo and fits the culture doesn't mean it fits the culture everywhere.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#366
post #336

Many posters have already mentioned some of the great things about Japanese cities: walkable neighbourhoods, good public transport, life without cars. I agree with all of these. However, you can't get something for nothing. Even in the suburbs there are essentially no gardens (a friend of mine lives way out of town and has a 10m by 10m garden which is enormous and unusual). Houses and apartments are significantly sma…

In that case, they should build tall apartment buildings, so that people can have a large indoor floor area. Normally that is at the cost of having a garden/yard, but you are telling me they don't have a garden anyway.

You're forgetting that Japan is earthquake country.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken they never received any kind of reparations, so they've been a permanent underclass since slavery.

He is referring to 20th century social services meant to fix slums, that wound up making marriage something that could get you kicked out of public housing and on-books work something that could get you kicked off financial support. This is often blamed for making everything worse and contributing to the social disaster zones that were the large public housing projects in northern cities.

Any links or references to share? Does this have a name?

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC St. Louis has a similar arrangement with the surrounding county. Addressing the context, though, Baltimore certainly belongs in any discussion of unpleasant downtowns. Altercations are a potential issue even driving (more so than walking actually). But there's also increasingly little to even walk to. The nightlife and culture all moved to the surrounding neighborhoods, now you just go downtown for the aquarium…

> Altercations are a potential issue even driving (more so than walking actually) are you referring to the complimentary car wash at president and lombard? but yeah I agree, there's a lot that's wrong with baltimore's downtown. if you assume that most people have to commute to work, it does make sense to have a downtown that's mostly office buildings and well-connected via public transit. so I kinda expect most downt…

Yeah, that and the one on MLK (not really downtown, I know). Seems pretty common that women take the long way to avoid both.

I guess you could imagine restaurants switching from lunch to dinner service, but yeah the whole idea of downtown lends itself to emptiness I guess. Certainly not helped in Baltimore's case by how many of the offices are just empty.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have to provide documentation of owning a parking space in order to be able to register a vehicle. This is amazing! Free parking is a scourge in urban areas

I can't agree, just because it works for tokyo and fits the culture doesn't mean it fits the culture everywhere.

Tree parking is an unneeded subsidy. The state/city should either sell or rent spots

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#370
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only somewhat agree. First of all, it depends if you have to commute to an office in some industrial park (even if it's only one or two days a week). Then there's the question of where your friends live, whether you regularly do activities outside the city, etc. Zipcar and Uber definitely make it easier not to own a car. But my observation of people I know in SF who don't own a car is that they make ample use of bo…

If you live in Japan without a car you will probably end up taking a taxi from time to time. They are lined up outside the major train stations. Overall, relying on mass-transit probably is more pleasant there, and takes less lifestyle-modifications, but you still have less freedom than owning a car. And probably take longer to get around usually. Also in plenty of Japan, by the way, you definitely need a car to get…

I live well outside Boston but have lived in Cambridge. I'd mostly be fine with walking and taking transit around the city itself--which I've done. And probably mostly wouldn't want to drive. But I'd regularly want to get out of the city for hiking and other activities and I wouldn't want to deal with rentals every time. (People I know who do live in the city and do similar activities generally own cars.)

Even given a decent commuter rail system it doesn't help for those sorts of activities.

So it's not really getting around the city but getting anywhere outside the city that isn't on convenient mass transit.

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