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Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

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Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#191

Post by sdenton4 »

capableweb wrote: post #177
sdenton4 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose any of the Faang companies could sacrifice a data center for a day or two to do the same. Just crash the currency and get out, to eliminate proof of work currencies.

Again, why would they? They only stand to lose on it, so why do it in the first place?

NVIDIA would reduce demand, but for the FAANG companies it's a neutral proposition, aside from the cost of doing the work to crash the currency.

And there's plenty of reasons to want to do so: Proof-of-work currencies are what make ransomware payments possible, and there's a large daily CO2 cost for proof of work currencies. The question is simply when is the cost of the externalities greater than the cost of acting?

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#192

Post by lostmsu »

xondono wrote: post #90
delabay wrote: post #54

Alternate opinion: proof of work mining provides a valuable service to society much moreso than videogames and the premium on GPUs reflects this. This isn't mainstream opinion of course, however I predict it will be. Crypto mining is the true first electricity buyer of last resort. It's a productive activity which can use megawatts of power and be turned off at a moments notice in order for the grid to meet the deman…

> It's a productive activity [..] It’s a profitable activity. There’s a difference there.

One does not preclude the other.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#193

Post by aNoob7000 »

jcranmer wrote: post #170
dagaci wrote: post #138

PC Hardware can come from an Era with so many manufacturers and true-actual fierce competition, resulting in complete commoditisation of components. However, now in 2022, there are only 2 CPU vendors,2 GPU vendors and even with storage the number of manufacturers is small. Only TSMC can deliver 5nm and Mr Cook has all that capacity on lock (AMD and Intel will get a look only when he is done with it) Mining like with…

I walked into a computer store last night. There were shelves full of CPUs and SSDs and HDDs, and buying several of them at once would have no one batting an eye. Yet there was a policy: only 1 graphics card per customer per month, and that applies solely to graphics cards (and prebuilt computers containing graphics cards). In other words, there is visibly a shortage of graphics cards that is not affecting any other…

Was is MicroCenter? I've seen the same thing at the store near my house.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#194

Post by freemint »

djohnston wrote: post #188
barkingcat wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

ETH yes but not BTC. GPUs can't touch ASICs

Enough GPUs can.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#195

Post by brokensegue »

cinntaile wrote: post #171
beebmam wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation can be shown to be causation when all factors are both known and controlled for. Controlling for CPU prices is one step towards that goal.

This is a circular argument. Why are CPU prices a confounding factor?

one can imagine factors that would cause both CPU and GPU prices to increase together. for example general purpose computing demand or supply-side constraints might cause all chip prices to rise.

if those non-crypto factors were confounding (say also happened to correlate with crypto-prices maybe due to some third unknown factor) then we would see CPU and GPU prices rise in response to crypto prices. we do not see that.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#196

Post by freemint »

elvatoloco123 wrote: post #185
barkingcat wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

Even after a decade, users here still don't know the basics of how blockchains work. Lol "A GPU attack on BTC" Jésus help us

There is no reason enough GPUs can't do it. Yes it is more expensive then getting the same hash rate via ASICs but the profitability off a 51% attack is a lot higher and NVIDIA would get their own chips at a reduced rate.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#197

Post by shiohime »

barkingcat wrote: post #136
m_ke wrote: post #72

I work in deep learning and had to camp out in front of a best buy to get my hands on some 3090s. A good portion of the people in line with me were crypto miners who were waiting to get more GPUs to add to their collection because they're making money on each one and as long as it's profitable it makes perfect sense for them to buy up more.

If nvidia straight up just stopped selling any cards, declined all their client/customer base, and just put 100% of their global output to mining cryptocurrencies, I think it's a good chance nvidia can do a 50%+1 attack on both bitcoin and ethereum at the same time. Once they successfully do the attack, they can take over the blockchains and allocate all cryptocurrencies to themselves, cash out, and it'd probably reg…

You haven't been able to GPU mine bitcoin in like a decade, every miner uses dedicated ASICs specifically for mining btc. It's been impossible to compete without ASICs for a very long time.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#198

Post by freemint »

tsimionescu wrote: post #166
wayoutthere wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes two years under normal circumstances; from what I understand backlogs for the lithography equipment are a huge bottleneck in the industry since there are only a few companies that make such specialized machines. They were already backordered for years pre-pandemic, with most of those getting pushed out because of supply constraint issues. We’re never going to return to the level of industrial output pre-Covi…

If Ethereum moves to PoS, half the crypto GPU market goes poof in an instant. Not a good thing to hedge more chip fabs on, I would bet.

It will move from one to another coin and profitability will decrease slightly unless supply induces demand.

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#199

Post by gtsop »

lottin wrote: post #181
gtsop wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely, but are we going to discuss making mining illegal because it drives up gpu prices?

It's already been banned in various countries, including a number of US towns.

Really? I was totally not aware of that, do you have a resource?

Re: Are cryptocurrencies to blame for high GPU prices?

#200

Post by jcranmer »

aNoob7000 wrote: post #193
jcranmer wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I walked into a computer store last night. There were shelves full of CPUs and SSDs and HDDs, and buying several of them at once would have no one batting an eye. Yet there was a policy: only 1 graphics card per customer per month, and that applies solely to graphics cards (and prebuilt computers containing graphics cards). In other words, there is visibly a shortage of graphics cards that is not affecting any other…

Was is MicroCenter? I've seen the same thing at the store near my house.

Yes.
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