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Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

izzys.casa

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Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#121

Post by yholio »

bluGill wrote: post #97
thomasfedb wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personality disorders are generally not able to be effectively treated with medications. That's not to say that doctors don't ever try, but there's very limited evidence to support it.

Personality disorders have been treated with therapy in many cases. What is the main reason for a label: to get the right treatment. People will never be "normal", but they can live in and deal with society, something they would have failed with even 30 years ago.

Come on now, you can't really believe that someone who "just couldn’t let something go because it was wrong or incorrect and it bothered" them - would have failed to live in and deal with society 30 years ago.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#122

Post by synergy20 »

its_bbq wrote: post #64

I met Izzy a few times at cppcon and always came away impressed. I have basically the same thoughts about the c++ community -- it burns people out and it's filled with a ton of negativity and ego and it's very hard to get anything done. While I was at Google I spent some time trying to push for some sort of codes of conduct after a colleague of mine had a reasonable proposal ripped to shreds in email groups with all…

my experience is that c++ community is very helpful, community is a small part of the real world, there are friendly and "bad" people, ask politely and to the point, help while you can, ignore some rants once a while...

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#123

Post by codr7 »

I used to feel mostly the same about all programming languages out there, all I could see was flaws. Then I started designing my own languages and was forced to admit that flaws are inevitable, and every time you start over again trying to fix them new ones emerge as a consequence of the changes. Better to appreciate the strengths of each language.

The same mindset can be applied to anything including other people; no one is perfect, better to appreciate the aspects you like. That doesn't mean allowing others to treat you badly, just not focusing on imperfections.

And once you do, magic happens, because you will automatically stop focusing on your own imperfections as well which is a much nicer way to live. That doesn't mean stop improving, just not beating yourself up for being what you are.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#124

Post by linuxlizard »

pyjarrett wrote: post #75

> So what is out there for me, if not C++ or Rust? Ada. I write C++ professionally and used Rust for about a year, but don't use it anymore. In many ways, Ada feels like a much simpler implementation of the C++ feature set. The language lets you focus on intent, while still having a lot of control. Yes, Ada's still alive and kicking, it has a package manager, documentation generator, parsing/semantic analysis library…

I wrote a toy Ada compiler for my master's thesis. It's a very fun language. I miss using it. I was attracted to Python because of exception handling which I learned from Ada.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#125

Post by csmpltn »

It must be frustrating to propose a bunch of ideas, cultivate and advocate for them, only to never see them acknowledged or accepted by the standards committee over the course of years.

That being said - let's get real about this. Simply coming up with a bunch of ideas for improvements is not enough. Neither is being vocal about it on Twitter, or giving talks at a convention. Gaining the community's support and acknowledgment is key here.

That you feel something is an "improvement" doesn't mean others see it that way. Same for "faults" and "imperfections". This isn't the community's fault, or Bjarne's.

This is the reality of working in a team. On a language used by millions of engineers around the world, which powers every facet of our modern society.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#127

Post by jenscow »

bvaldivielso wrote: post #105
turminal wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C knowledge is still way more generally useful than javascript and/or web knowledge. Whatever you think of C there's no denying it's everywhere and understanding it is relevant in pretty much every software system in existence, even when that's not immediately obvious.

> C knowledge is still way more generally useful than javascript and/or web knowledge "Generally useful" is a vague concept. If you judge by number of job openings, you'll probably find JavaScript is more useful. There are probably metrics by which C is more useful. "Being everywhere" is not necessarily a good measure of the upside one can get by learning it. For example, electronics are also everywhere (more so than…

Perhaps the point was, learning C is more of an eye opener than an actual skill.

You're going to have to try hard to actually program something in C in the majority of jobs. On the other hand, you'll have to try hard to avoid any C-Based languages.

Of course, if someone new to programming asked me "shall i learn JS or C?", I would recommend JS.

However, after a few years.. give C a try. Make a throw-away "ls" or something.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#128

Post by masklinn »

bluGill wrote: post #95
pyjarrett wrote: post #75

> So what is out there for me, if not C++ or Rust? Ada. I write C++ professionally and used Rust for about a year, but don't use it anymore. In many ways, Ada feels like a much simpler implementation of the C++ feature set. The language lets you focus on intent, while still having a lot of control. Yes, Ada's still alive and kicking, it has a package manager, documentation generator, parsing/semantic analysis library…

It became clear that the author isn't willing to consider anything that isn't 100% perfect in every way anymore. One tool needs some work - your whole language is out. Ada is on my list of languages to learn something about (more than the 12 languages in 10 weeks class I took back when I got my degree which is the only time I touched it). It has some interesting features (particularly the SPARK variant)

> It became clear that the author isn't willing to consider anything that isn't 100% perfect in every way anymore.

Not "perfect", "their way". Things like variadic generics or arity overloading are not about perfection (there are excellent reasons not to have them).

And it's fine to want things and not be willing to compromise — which is what OP did, incidentally.

But it has nothing to do with "perfection", and your take is very much unhelpful and inflamatory.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#129

Post by taneq »

Atomskun wrote: post #21

[flagged]

> Imagine needing to announce your "departure" from a community.

If you're active enough in a community that you'd need to explain something multiple times to multiple close contacts then isn't it the most efficient way to do it?

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#130

Post by LasEspuelas »

mysterydip wrote: post #17

> The last 10 years of my life writing C++ in a professional context were a complete waste of time that I will never get back. I have nothing to show for it. I don't get this part. The language you write something in has little to do with how useful the software is. I've had years writing fulfilling software, and years where I was just spinning my wheels.

Sounds like this person's passion is the language. And that she has failed to bend it to her liking. Reading through her post, and just based on it, I would guess she has the skills and opinions to create her own language and potentially demostrarte why her vision is worthwhile.
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