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Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

izzys.casa

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Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#61

Post by turminal »

gameswithgo wrote: post #39
turminal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C++ is not going away in the foreseeable future, like it or not.

This is like telling green energy advocates that oil isn’t going away. Everyone knows already. When engaging people consider not assuming maximum naïveté

Coincidentally, both green energy advocates and Rust advocates tend to have fairly naïve expectations.

I consider myself a green energy advocate and would be glad to see c++ go away but I find naïveté a huge obstacle on the path to both of those goals.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#62

Post by notacoward »

FYI: the author is named Isabella and AFAICT uses female pronouns. In light of that, the amount of "he" and "him" in the comments so far seems a bit excessive.

EDIT: it looks like a lot of those comments have been cleaned up or deleted since I first made this comment. Thank you.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#64

Post by its_bbq »

I met Izzy a few times at cppcon and always came away impressed. I have basically the same thoughts about the c++ community -- it burns people out and it's filled with a ton of negativity and ego and it's very hard to get anything done. While I was at Google I spent some time trying to push for some sort of codes of conduct after a colleague of mine had a reasonable proposal ripped to shreds in email groups with all sorts of inappropriate sexist and personal attacks. I got absolutely nowhere.

Don't get me wrong, there are many good people there pushing for positive change but the amount of inertia in that scene is just staggering.

I'm glad you got out and decided to do something more meaningful with your talent, Izzy

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#66

Post by its_bbq »

ch_123 wrote: post #47
Atomskun wrote: post #21

[flagged]

> Imagine needing to announce your "departure" from a community. The exact same thing jumped out at me. Does anyone know if the author is a particularly well known or influential member of the C++ community?

They were around. I remember that Izzy was a part of the conversation around modules for example.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#67

Post by phaedrus »

amelius wrote: post #7

> I discovered that I not only have OCD but OCPD, a personality disorder. If you’ve ever had a conversation with me where I just couldn’t let something go because it was wrong or incorrect and it bothered me, now you know why. Sounds like about half of the people on internet fora.

The author of the article also sounds like the sort of individual or clique who derail Stack Overflow posts because they feel the premise of the question is wrong (leaving both the original asker and any later reader with their actual problem still unsolved).

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#68

Post by mwattsun »

Since the author is open up front about their OCD issues, this talk immediately came to mind. It's a bit of an elaborate tongue-in-cheek joke, but I found it personally helpful for thinking about why a choose a language. Pervert in this context does not mean sexual deviancy. In the Lacanian sense, a pervert is a person who enjoys being a vessel of the rules.

The Pervert's Guide to Computer Programming Languages - SXSW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZyvIHYn2zk

    The Pervert's Guide to Computer Programming Languages 
    Psychoanalysis and Software 

    What are the issues with selecting a programming language?
        • Which programming language should we choose? 
            - Just saying: 'use the right tool for the job' begs the question
        • Why are there over 1000 programming languages? 
        • How do we critique a programming language? 

    • Why do language designers create new programming languages? 
        • Rational reasons 
            • Maximize expression while modeling: 
                • a specific problem 
                • a broad range of problems 
    • Psychoanalysts: "Many decisions are not rational" 
    • Programming language choice can be rational, non-rational, or a mix 
    • Use Jacques Lacan and Slavoj Zizek's critical theory 
        • Critique non-rational decisions 
        • Discover ulterior motives (ours and others) 
        • Explain the diversity of language options 

    Jacques Lacan 
        • French psychoanalyst and philosopher 
        • Extremely cryptic 
        • Preoccupied with desire and enjoyment 
        • Popularized the mirror image, the Big Other, and the triad of the Imaginary. the Symbolic. and the Real 
        • Believes all humans fall into the three basic mental structures of psychosis, perversion, and neurosis 

    Why the 'Pervert's Guide'? 
        • Based on the Pervert's Guide to Ideology by Slavoj Zizek
        • Pervert is a person who enjoys being a vessel of the rules. 
        • Zizek calls the analyst's method of discourse the pervert's discourse
        • The analyst sits in the position of the object of desire for the subject. 
        • The analysand projects his or her ideals onto the analyst (transference) 
        • When we analyze programming languages we are operating in the analyst's (i.e. pervert's) discourse.

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#69

Post by jonway »

blitz_skull wrote: post #28
Atomskun wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Quoted post unavailable.

this is just from wikipedia for context: "Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) is a cluster C personality disorder marked by an excessive need for orderliness, neatness, and perfectionism."

Comports with this in my opinion. Having known some people who were called "Type A personalities" who tend to be great at metrics and goals but not always so great emotional intelligence. Narcissism is common etc. This is the kind of person who will fixate on an uncleaned toilet or rattle in their car for weeks, losing sleep.

Recalling one person I've known with these traits, she sounds a lot like this person. After a couple of decades and seeing her raise a family has convinced me she is indeed Human, if she had gotten therapy things would be a lot different. She's much more pro-social, though she also didnt really maintain her friendships but she definitley never had a career with walls of compiler warnings to ignore. That might have killed her.

Closing her blog, Izzy expresses a deep frustration and lack of any derived meaning from what she had viewed as her purpose (c++ I suppose) as well as a general feeling of isolation. If you are feeling some shadenfreud about this for some reason, its clear she is very unhappy. It doesnt seem particularly rational to view languages this way. My impression is that this person is probably in distress and depressed. If this were my friend I would be making phone calls.

Izzy: Good luck, lady. C++ is hard, but so is life. Keep looking for that purpose. If you happen to read here, I suggest volunteering at an animal shelter. Just working on something less demanding and quite possibly more rewarding is a great therapy break, as you've found from your Ops position. You are well positioned to tackle this.

[] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive%E2%80%93compulsive_p...

Re: Wrapping Up 2021. Leaving C++

#70

Post by xbar »

The author is having a human experience, but I do not find it relatable.

I do appreciate her high-level comments on non-C++ languages as amusing and accurate complaints.

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