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Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

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Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#111

Post by throwaway2037 »

ehnto wrote: post #83
bedobi wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand how "cities" like Adelaide, Auckland and Wellington keep making these lists of "most liveable cities". Their low populations mean they just don't have much of the things that make cities desirable. (like, lots of culture, lots of diversity, lots of options for dining and activities etc etc) Granted, that can make them comparatively pleasant and peaceful, with good access to outdoors and fr…

It's a really hard thing to be objective about I think, the lists are never going to be particularly useful. There are definitely parts of Tokyo life that don't score well, like house pricing, size and type. The concrete jungle isn't for everyone either, there is an amicable amount of greenery but it's mostly concrete. The lists seem to bias toward those things you mentioned, family homes and access to nature, so I t…

It is interesting you wrote > when the post above specifically mentioned Adelaide, Auckland and Wellington. Compare Tokyo house price inflation in last 10+ years to those others. Tokyo is a steal by comparison. It is a myth that Tokyo is still crazy expensive like in the 1990s. And when publications like The Economist talk about housing prices, they are looking at how senior executives live in the center of the city. They are not looking at middle class housing, which is in abundance throughout most of the city.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#112

Post by monkeypawfan »

nine_k wrote: post #76
ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Exactly. The US has very few cities proper, and a lot of huge suburbs that sometimes feature a city-like downtown (L.A., Houston), and sometimes don't (most of the Silicon Valley). The real honest dense US cities, such as NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, and a few others, were built large and dense before the advent of the car, and had entrenched public transportation system before 1930s. Those that were not as lu…

I can't help but think that we're doing a repeat with building things around mobile phone use too

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#113

Post by Gwypaas »

null_object wrote: post #47
bedobi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I wish all cities everywhere was more like them! (and Tokyo)

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

I think Stockholm's greatest problem is the geography. Everything going north or south in the entire region has to pass through the same few islands in central Stockholm, all options are awful. Therefore we end up with the horrific traffic on for example Hornsgatan or Sveavägen used for essentially thoroughfare when they instead should be calmed nice livable streets.

The way to solve it is by finishing the bypass (Förbifart) Stockholm and an eastern ring connection and then start greatly limiting traffic going through the center.

Completely agree outside the inner city. You can feel that it was designed in the 60s and 70s and then never touched again.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#114

Post by syki »

danielrpa wrote: post #85
ekianjo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities? I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

We Americans are a nation of people who spend the vast majority of our waking hours inside. We go from building to building via car isolated from the world and each other. It’s an enormous waste of land and resources since every building has to have its own parking. Most parking lots at stores sit empty most of the time. It’s unhealthy that we walk so little. It’s unhealthy that we interact so little with those around us. It’s unhealthy that we spend so little time outside. We are a nation of zombies addicted to fast food, rage (caused by living virtually in information bubbles designed by Facebook and others), and a fear of interacting with each other.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#115

Post by wffurr »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #27
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I feel like this is a chicken and egg problem. In many western cities - and I won't name names - the downtown area is not pleasant due to anti-social behaviour. So even when they do make it walkable, I don't want to walk there, I'd rather drive to a suburban mall and reduce my chances of an altercation. Until that's fixed it's a non-starter.

Cities with shittier weather, e.g. in the Northeast or upper Midwest, don’t seem to have this problem as much. Much less antisocial behavior than in California cities, which seem uniquely bad in this respect.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#116

Post by OJFord »

makotobestgirl wrote: post #16
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

This is honestly the thing that bothers me most about cities the US. Having grown up in Europe, I find many (I'm sure there are exceptions) US cities to be plain ugly and unlivable. The reason is obvious to me. It's that they are designed around cars. It makes such a huge difference.

It took me a while to realise what it was that bothered me, but yes there's a real lack of 'high street shopping' and markets type organisation from what I've seen in North America - instead drive to a big square ~car park~ 'lot' surrounded by 'big box stores'. Everything scaled up.

If you like it fine, can't really say either's objectively better, it's just really quite different and I suppose you likes what you grow up with or are used to.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#117

Post by setgree »

Coming home from Tokyo to New York in 2018 was depressing. You get so used to living in a dysfunctional society that you forget it's dysfunctional, but getting off the plane at JFK, I was reminded of Biden's comment that our airports are like stepping into a third world country [0]. The next week in New York, I felt like I saw nothing but broken things and lost people.

How many places in America:

  * have good schools and offices within walking distance
  * have such good public transport that you don't need a car
  * provide easy access to nature and parks
  * are affordable to midde-class people?
I think the answer might be zero places -- those that meet the first three criteria (Berkeley, parts of NYC, and Seattle) don't meet the fourth.

[0] https://abc7ny.com/laguardia-airport-improvements-renovation... -- though technically he was talking about LaGuardia

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#118

Post by ido »

monkeypawfan wrote: post #112
nine_k wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The US has very few cities proper, and a lot of huge suburbs that sometimes feature a city-like downtown (L.A., Houston), and sometimes don't (most of the Silicon Valley). The real honest dense US cities, such as NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, and a few others, were built large and dense before the advent of the car, and had entrenched public transportation system before 1930s. Those that were not as lu…

I can't help but think that we're doing a repeat with building things around mobile phone use too

How do mobile phones affect city planning?

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#119

Post by iso1210 »

null_object wrote: post #47
bedobi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I wish all cities everywhere was more like them! (and Tokyo)

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

There are many boroughs in London with a majority of households not owning a car - more than 60% in Islington, Hackey, Tower Hamlets, Camden, Westminster, City, with Haringey, Hammersmith/Fulham, Kensington/Chelsea, Newham, Southwark, Lambeth, Newham, being over 50% without a car.

Oddly the Isles of Scilly, which are tiny, and lack a proper vehicle ferry to the mainland, has about 50% of the population with a car or van. The furthest you could actually go would be able 2 miles.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#120

Post by aikinai »

natded wrote: post #87

It lacks diversity.

Tokyo has so many people, it couldn’t avoid being one of the most diverse cities in the world. I guess the stereotype is that all 40M people are salaryman drones and housewives, but clearly that’s not true. If even half are something else, that still leaves tens of millions of people to fill out all the other varieties of people.

Whatever your culture or interest is, there will be a place you can find that in Tokyo, probably more so then any other city on Earth.

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