Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#21

Post by gojomo » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:31 PM UTC

nknight wrote: post #15

bh42222 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing for California they'll lobby to extend it for another year, and another year, etc... Nationally, I'm not sure Congress can force non-taxation on the sates, I think that's a constitutional issue. I think Amazon's plan there is just to use their market dominance and hope the states fold.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

Amazon ran Target's online store for years, and collected locality-appropriate sales tax on those orders. It's not as hard as some people make it out to be.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#22

Post by w1ntermute » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:40 PM UTC

aero142 wrote: post #2

I'm unsure of what Amazon's long term plan is. Is it their hope that Congress deals with this on a national level and makes it workable? They just don't want to deal with the mess on a state by state basis?

We'll have elections in November 2012. They might be planning to buy off enough politicians with campaign donations to get a more permanent measure passed before September.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#23

Post by kposehn » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:44 PM UTC

There is a very important aspect of this whole mess that is left out:

The legislation, which affects affiliates, would be repealed under the deal as it stood this morning. At this time I don't know if that stuck.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#24

Post by hyperbovine » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:45 PM UTC

reemrevnivek wrote: post #4

> While Democrats and Gov. Jerry Brown fretted that they would lose $200 million a year in sales taxes California residents are supposed to pay use tax on internet purchases regardless of the physical presence of the retailer, right? Running the math: the $200 million/year loss that they claim is an estimate on tax fraud on just Amazon purchases? At a 7.25% tax rate, that's a tax on $2.7 billion in sales, and Amazon'…

California punches well above its weight when it comes to consumption expenditures. I wouldn't be surprised if a quarter of Amazon's purchases originated here. We Californians are a spendy bunch.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#25

Post by earl » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:49 PM UTC

nknight wrote: post #15

bh42222 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing for California they'll lobby to extend it for another year, and another year, etc... Nationally, I'm not sure Congress can force non-taxation on the sates, I think that's a constitutional issue. I think Amazon's plan there is just to use their market dominance and hope the states fold.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

Amazon has 33k employees [1], estimated; they can figure it out. Also, I'm positive there's at least one company selling such information -- thousands of other retailers, most much smaller and much less technically sophisticated than Amazon, still manage to make it happen. This is an idiotic excuse.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#26

Post by weaksauce » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:55 PM UTC

halostatue wrote: post #17

nknight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

The varying rates aren't a problem, for certain; Amazon deals with those just fine in various localities (Canada has approximately 10 different rates; I don't think that cities are allowed to put additional sales taxes, as that's reserved to the federal government and the provinces/territories). What's problematic for Amazon (IMO) is the wildly varying applicability rules and filing mechanisms. I think your idea of a…

In California there are different tax rates for every county in the state. see http://www.boe.ca.gov/cgi-bin/rates.cgi

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#27

Post by rfrey » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:56 PM UTC

halostatue wrote: post #17

nknight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

The varying rates aren't a problem, for certain; Amazon deals with those just fine in various localities (Canada has approximately 10 different rates; I don't think that cities are allowed to put additional sales taxes, as that's reserved to the federal government and the provinces/territories). What's problematic for Amazon (IMO) is the wildly varying applicability rules and filing mechanisms. I think your idea of a…

Even Canada, with 1/10 the number of jurisdictions, is attempting to unify: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonized_Sales_Tax.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#28

Post by thematt » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:56 PM UTC

earl wrote: post #25

nknight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

Amazon has 33k employees [1], estimated; they can figure it out. Also, I'm positive there's at least one company selling such information -- thousands of other retailers, most much smaller and much less technically sophisticated than Amazon, still manage to make it happen. This is an idiotic excuse. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com

Yes, Amazon does. But if it applies to Amazon then it will apply to all the other smaller internet retailers as well. The historical precedent was that it creates an undue burden on said retailers who have to collect such a tax. It's not an excuse, it's a Supreme Court ruling.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#29

Post by Symmetry » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 9:57 PM UTC

earl wrote: post #25

nknight wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even non-taxation. It's the fact that no two states with sales taxes have the same rates (which can also vary by locality), rules about what it applies to, or filing mechanism. Amazon and everyone else involved in ecommerce would be a lot happier if there were a unified system/database for dealing with sales taxes in the US. Rates and rules wouldn't necessarily have to be the same, but there at least has to…

Amazon has 33k employees [1], estimated; they can figure it out. Also, I'm positive there's at least one company selling such information -- thousands of other retailers, most much smaller and much less technically sophisticated than Amazon, still manage to make it happen. This is an idiotic excuse. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com

Actually, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about companies selling this information. Smaller retailers manage to avoid this hassle by... not having to pay sales tax for out-of-state purchases.

That might be whats behind Amazon's change of heart. This will be difficult for them, but its probably impossible for smaller retailers. It might be expensive in the short term, but it protects them from competition in the long run.

Re: Amazon.com cuts California sales tax deal in stunning turnabout

#30

Post by ars » Thu, Sep 08, 2011, 10:03 PM UTC

shithead wrote: post #19

Just FYI: in Europe, Amazon collects VAT at the buyers' local rate. For example, when shipping books from the UK (which has zero VAT on books), the bill includes VAT at the destination country's rate.

Does VAT vary per county? Or also by smaller areas? If it's just per country it's not that hard to do.