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Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

naro.go.jp

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Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#111

Post by underwater »

mLuby wrote: post #74
TacticalCoder wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been dreaming about that to kill mosquitoes since I was a teenager. Then I wondered: "how to prevent firing the laser into someone's eye?" and my idea was to only shoot laser from 2 meters high and to only ever shoot towards the ceiling, never downwards, while having the ceiling having some kind of paint/material that wouldn't be reflecting the laser too much. Make the paint/material all white to makes mosquito…

Wipe them out, all of them. The ecosystem will survive mosquitoes' extinction. On the subject of laser safety, can you make one weak enough that a human will naturally blink or look away without getting blinded but powerful enough that it'll overheat the mosquito its trained on for a few seconds? If the Joules are spread out linearly over a few second, I expect it'd exponentially decrease the risk of chance reflectio…

Generally removing a species completely has downstream effects, but as far as I'm aware mosquitos aren't occupying any unique role as either food, pollinator, or keeping other insects at bay.

And mosquitos indirectly lead to many deaths, around a million people each year. Mosquitos kill more people each day than sharks have killed in the last century.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#112

Post by dr-ando »

numpad0 wrote: post #99
jjcm wrote: post #6

It says the prediction is accurate to 1.4cm, but it doesn’t say at what range. 1.4cm at 1km is great, but 1.4cm at 1m likely isn’t usable. I’m also curious what the failsafes are like for this - how will they prevent laser spillover or misfires from hitting eyes? Even if this is a 1 in a million chance, it likely isn’t worth it except in highly remote areas.

The original article was published a month or so earlier, and sounded a bit like the angular resolution for whatever machine was already determined, and they worked their way back to suitable bugs and the use case, rather than having a specific issue in mind and designing the setup around.

Which original article? I would be interested to read it.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#113

Post by taneq »

nescioquid wrote: post #63
taneq wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After abandoning the laser idea due to the aforementioned “fully automated blindness / house fire machine” issues, I’ve often idly wondered if you could use a phased array of small subwoofers to generate a precisely targeted region of extreme pressure drop. That way you could just instantaneously and explosively decompress the suckers in such a way that’s probably safe for mammals.

That's a fascinating idea! Do you have an idea about the intensity and how "loud" the system would need to be to generate the compression/rarefaction necessary for that effect (or could the Hz be lower than audible threshold)? Also, I'm uncertain what behavior the array would yield (other than maybe expanding the area of effect)? Apologies if my questions are too deep in the well of ignorance to address.

No idea what pressure change over what timescale would be required to actually injure a mosquito, I guess someone will have to torture a bunch of mosquitos for science.

The reason to use an array is to precisely control the timing of each speaker so that the sound waves from each of them interfere constructively at a single point. Then by varying the timing you can target that focal point wherever the mosquito is, hopefully without causing the sound to be painfully loud anywhere away from that point.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#114

Post by numpad0 »

dr-ando wrote: post #112
numpad0 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original article was published a month or so earlier, and sounded a bit like the angular resolution for whatever machine was already determined, and they worked their way back to suitable bugs and the use case, rather than having a specific issue in mind and designing the setup around.

Which original article? I would be interested to read it.

[1]. Upon re-reading this, they don't even have the actual laser rig, just a camera and a methodology to estimate future locations to compensate for [camera] latencies with accuracy that conveniently fits within average body sizes of specific spices of a bug. This is also funded by "Moonshot R&D Program" and its sub-programs[2][3] ran by the Cabinet Office of Government of Japan.

Are you fluent in the language by chance? Because I might be able to explain how I came to post the above comment but it's hard, it just ... smells.

1: https://www.naro.go.jp/publicity_report/press/laboratory/nip...

2: https://www8.cao.go.jp/cstp/moonshot/index.html

3: https://www.affrc.maff.go.jp/docs/moonshot/moonshot.html

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#115

Post by egberts1 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #42
consp wrote: post #17

Ah yes, the "star wars laser defense mosquito system". It' as impractical then (early 00's origin) as it is now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGkPMZxWPpA&t=2s (it's Dutch but you get it). Unless you can get mm accuracy and perfect non-foe detection it's useless with the multi-watt lasers generally required.

I've been dreaming about that to kill mosquitoes since I was a teenager. Then I wondered: "how to prevent firing the laser into someone's eye?" and my idea was to only shoot laser from 2 meters high and to only ever shoot towards the ceiling, never downwards, while having the ceiling having some kind of paint/material that wouldn't be reflecting the laser too much. Make the paint/material all white to makes mosquito…

Your efforts are better spent on developing fixed-distance laser.

Perhaps something like a million steerable ultra-low-powered laser beams focusing on a target.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#116

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

stubish wrote: post #96
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #7

This sounds very similar to that old idea for protecting African families from female Aedes Aegypti mosquitoes[0]. I think the idea never took off, and I’m still not sure why. [0]: https://youtu.be/hqKafI7Amd8

It never took off because a) Mosquitos are small and hard targets and b) because philanthropists realized they could buy mosquito nets for billions with the funding required to develop it. If it gets developed for mosquitoes, it will be a solution for rich people for decades.

Do you have a source for that? My understanding was that the technology worked just fine, and that it wasn’t expensive because the system comprised of consumer electronics, like the laser from a Blu-Ray player and the GPU from a PlayStation.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#117

Post by mLuby »

mLuby wrote: post #74
TacticalCoder wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been dreaming about that to kill mosquitoes since I was a teenager. Then I wondered: "how to prevent firing the laser into someone's eye?" and my idea was to only shoot laser from 2 meters high and to only ever shoot towards the ceiling, never downwards, while having the ceiling having some kind of paint/material that wouldn't be reflecting the laser too much. Make the paint/material all white to makes mosquito…

Wipe them out, all of them. The ecosystem will survive mosquitoes' extinction. On the subject of laser safety, can you make one weak enough that a human will naturally blink or look away without getting blinded but powerful enough that it'll overheat the mosquito its trained on for a few seconds? If the Joules are spread out linearly over a few second, I expect it'd exponentially decrease the risk of chance reflectio…

I regret that flippant first line because the second paragraph is what I was hoping to hear from HN about.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#118

Post by dumbfoundded »

tdrdt wrote: post #106
dumbfoundded wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just an example. I've worked with industrial laser cutters (100+watt CO2) before and even with all of the protective equipment built into the machines, you still wear glasses. The idea that you could use something like this in an exposed way is crazy to anyone who's actually worked with them. Any mistake is instant and permanent. You can't make a consumer product out of this. Maybe like a large box that only mos…

I would like to have a cheap laser engraver/cutter but I am just afraid to buy one. Most kits don't have any protection at all except for some goggles. This might be fine for yourself but not for someone stepping into the room. Lasers are no joke. 'Don't look into the laser with your remaining eye' is also no joke.

They are absolutely no joke.

For the small uncovered diode laser cutters, I'd recommend setting it up & running it remotely. If you use a laptop with a webcam & some remote desktop software, you can operate one safely it from a different room.

There are many covered desktop ones that I think are a bit safer though. Ventilation is also a big concern.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#119

Post by dr-ando »

numpad0 wrote: post #114
dr-ando wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which original article? I would be interested to read it.

[1]. Upon re-reading this, they don't even have the actual laser rig, just a camera and a methodology to estimate future locations to compensate for [camera] latencies with accuracy that conveniently fits within average body sizes of specific spices of a bug. This is also funded by "Moonshot R&D Program" and its sub-programs[2][3] ran by the Cabinet Office of Government of Japan. Are you fluent in the language by cha…

Thanks. I was able to read [1] with the help of Google Translate. From what I understand, this is an announcement of the project being funded within the Moonshot program and thus it is expected that the capabilities discussed are the goal, not what the researchers have already demonstrated.

Re: Predict 3D position of flying bugs and pest to shoot down them with a laser

#120

Post by wartijn_ »

reilly3000 wrote: post #65
wartijn_ wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be used to kill all insects, just the few mosquitos that are in my bedroom when I try to sleep. I'll remove any dead mosquitos the next morning and probably won't really alter the ecosystem, while it can make sure I have a good night's sleep. Edit: after re-reading the article I see the main subject is killing moths to improve agriculture, not mosquitos in my bedroom

For indoor pests we have had good results with diffusing lavender oil at night and peppermint oil by day. Mosquitoes in particular hate those smells and it makes it difficult for them to smell CO2 emitted from your skin pores which is their main attractant. We also eliminated a source of standing water by our home and that pretty much ended the issue.

I'll definitely try that, Thanks :)

Moving from southern Europe to northern-ish Europe also worked pretty well for me. It's cold, dark and rainy here, but at least the mosquitos are only a problem a few months per year.

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