Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 448 posts

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#81

Post by tkgally »

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

Another Japanese city that would be quite livable without a car is Osaka. I myself have lived carless in Tokyo and Yokohama for nearly forty years without any problem. About ten years ago, I started going to Osaka several times a year and have found it similarly easy to get around on foot and public transportation. The center of Osaka is quite flat, and a lot of people there also use bicycles. If I weren't settled in Yokohama, I would be happy to live in Osaka.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#82

Post by srvmshr »

deltaonefour wrote: post #4

I thought about getting a job there as a dev. However certain things like culture, low pay, the language, and making new friends has held me back. I really loved the city when I visited a couple years back. Does anyone live in Japan as a dev and not really know how to speak japanese? How has the experience been?

I am an expat living in Tokyo for 5 years. My language skills is limited - I haven't given any JLPT. I can understand some conversation but can't speak. I depend on my wife for most official paperwork. I have lived in US, China & India before.

I work mostly in MLOps. Life is really not that bad. I would probably never go back to US. I work in niche ML & robotics domain and there is enough scope for growth and making new things.

About life in general, what expats miss is that Japanese people forgive you for not knowing the language, but they do take offense at not following the general customs of the place. Being loud, making hand gestures, acting aggressively, talking on the phone in a public space & metro etc are big no-no. Too many foreigners feel unwelcome because they refuse to blend in & want to be the sore thumb sticking out.

Once someone blends in their society and manages to have japanese folks invite you in their inner circles, you become as thick as a family member. It all boils down to being respectful of the local way of life. If you live in Japan as a Japanese, (and maybe speaking some Japanese e.g N4 level), life is really comfortable & easy

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#83

Post by ehnto »

bedobi wrote: post #77
ehnto wrote: post #65

> Tokyo comes joint fourth, but its population is larger than the combined populations of the others (Adelaide, Auckland, Osaka and Wellington). Having lived in Adelaide and visited Toyko, Osaka and a bunch of other Japanese cities, I can take a crack at the difference: Adelaide is a great lifestyle city, if you don't actually want to live in a city, love car enabled lifestyles and the outdoors. Tokyo would be great…

I honestly don't understand how "cities" like Adelaide, Auckland and Wellington keep making these lists of "most liveable cities". Their low populations mean they just don't have much of the things that make cities desirable. (like, lots of culture, lots of diversity, lots of options for dining and activities etc etc) Granted, that can make them comparatively pleasant and peaceful, with good access to outdoors and fr…

It's a really hard thing to be objective about I think, the lists are never going to be particularly useful. There are definitely parts of Tokyo life that don't score well, like house pricing, size and type. The concrete jungle isn't for everyone either, there is an amicable amount of greenery but it's mostly concrete.

The lists seem to bias toward those things you mentioned, family homes and access to nature, so I think they're targeting a really specific demographic with that.

I'm big on urban wandering, dining out and social stuff but I can see why someone might retire in Adelaide instead of Tokyo if they want to relax their retirement away. I think I'd rather Tokyo, just because of the public transport. You'd be able to go anywhere even after you can't drive.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#84

Post by dijit »

bedobi wrote: post #60
null_object wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

Add it to the long list of popular misconceptions about Sweden in general, most of which are held by the Swedes themselves, lol.

It’s not all of Sweden though. I live in Malmo and I haven’t felt the need to drive at all.

There are people who drive of course by the bulk of the city feels like it’s for the pedestrians and cyclists, and driving through the city itself is simply awkward.

I moved here from London. If that helps lay context.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#85

Post by danielrpa »

ekianjo wrote: post #44
makotobestgirl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is honestly the thing that bothers me most about cities the US. Having grown up in Europe, I find many (I'm sure there are exceptions) US cities to be plain ugly and unlivable. The reason is obvious to me. It's that they are designed around cars. It makes such a huge difference.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Why does the US need to have traditional cities?

I grew up in a high density city overseas and I can see the appeal of both types of city. I personally prefer low density, car centric cities (obviously we need to finish solving the emissions problem from cars, but that's separate).

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#86

Post by smcl »

bedobi wrote: post #17
makotobestgirl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is honestly the thing that bothers me most about cities the US. Having grown up in Europe, I find many (I'm sure there are exceptions) US cities to be plain ugly and unlivable. The reason is obvious to me. It's that they are designed around cars. It makes such a huge difference.

I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I wish all cities everywhere was more like them! (and Tokyo)

These US vs EU cities discussions appear a lot on HN and when I see people lamenting that their European city is too car-centric I always wonder if they mean

a) their city is not the public transport utopia people want to believe it is

b) their city is completely unlivable without a car

Because this is quite important distinction - I suspect that many Europeans want to convey point a) but are potentially being understood as saying point b).

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#88

Post by jsiaajdsdaa »

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

You want to live in a city that pushes people into subway cars like cattle?

Communicable diseases?

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#89

Post by null_object »

dijit wrote: post #84
bedobi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add it to the long list of popular misconceptions about Sweden in general, most of which are held by the Swedes themselves, lol.

It’s not all of Sweden though. I live in Malmo and I haven’t felt the need to drive at all. There are people who drive of course by the bulk of the city feels like it’s for the pedestrians and cyclists, and driving through the city itself is simply awkward. I moved here from London. If that helps lay context.

The city council in Stockholm in the 60s had a plan to empty what they saw was the slum-center of the town, the residents of which they felt were morally degenerate, and move them out to the suburbs.

The working classes would then commute into work on public transport, while ‘fine’ office workers would take their car. The cachet attached to traveling by car has never been lost, and any attempt to curtail car use is always met with enormous resistance ever since.

Looking at pictures of Stockholm in the 40s and 50s one can see the streets were full of cyclists.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#90

Post by pbhjpbhj »

bedobi wrote: post #78
cjblomqvist wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

Overwhelmingly, it's the Social Democrat party, not evil capitalists or car manufacturers, who are responsible for aggressively promoting cars and car centric policy and infrastructure in Sweden. This fact will grind the gears of both Swedes and misinformed Americans alike, lol.

Interesting, what sort of aggressive promotion of cars have the SD party being doing?
Post reply on HN