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Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

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Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#71

Post by rootsudo »

kstenerud wrote: post #6
deltaonefour wrote: post #4

I thought about getting a job there as a dev. However certain things like culture, low pay, the language, and making new friends has held me back. I really loved the city when I visited a couple years back. Does anyone live in Japan as a dev and not really know how to speak japanese? How has the experience been?

I didn't speak Japanese when I first moved there. In larger cities (especially Tokyo), there are plenty of people who speak English, so it's generally not a huge problem (although you'll find things easier if you do speak the language). The biggest issues are crowding and racism. Don't expect to get into any role of importance, and don't freak out when you hear "gaijin dame" (no foreigners allowed) in some places, or…

100% AGree don't learn Japanese from another gender, you will sound effeminate - if you have some standing in the langauge, then it is totally okay - but then there's another side of the stigma/gaijin hunter that use langauge exchange for dating/making kids.

But, yeah, using emi (笑） or ww as a guy is a very huge social gaffe if not used sarcastically. You can use it it, but better with close relationships, like really close - and that whole "ne" and up pitch voice also is 100% accurate.

With that said, ne, "sou da ne?/そうだね" is acceptable as a guy if it's usually sarcastic or mocking - context: drinks, talking about friends or such - or teasing one another about their gf/wife - 100% acceptable. Doing it at a mall, store, work, no - and they won't tell you!

-- For the older timers/gaijin bubble, it depends. I find the older crowd, if they're settled and have a family a huge plus. If they're an English Teacher/in Eikawa, avoid - that sounds rude and cruel, but if someones early 20's and in JET - that's acceptable, if they're mid 40's and trying to play as they're still in their 20's - they may know a few things and such but it's not a good sign usually.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#72

Post by rootsudo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #52
makotobestgirl wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I could imagine snacks to be among the places where you have problems going as a foreigner. It probably just depends on the owner. I haven't been to many, so I can't really speak to that. I tried a few times and had no trouble getting in, but I was with Japanese friends. May have been a different story if I had been alone.

The ones in resort towns seem to always have “no foreigners” signs in English…I guess to avoid having any awkward denials at all. Seems perfectly legal to not serve foreigners, in any case.

I get away with it by saying I'm Hafu, and then asking if it's for me. Once you ask, and you are fluent in Japanese enough, they don't care.

This is not to say there is no racism in Japan, but for resorts it's most likely they don't have the capacity to help in English/Foreign Language.

If it's some seedy thing, like a cheap/seedy bar, karaoke, J/KTV or sexual services then it's both, no English and they want discretion.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#74

Post by bedobi »

franciscop wrote: post #70
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I also live there and one interesting bit that, in retrospective is OBVIOUS, is that there are also no cars parked on the streets! Like, if you look at pictures or walk down the street it feels so pleasant for some reason but difficult to put your finger at it, until you realize there's no huge cars piling on the sides. I prefer European Architecture for downtown buildings, but the no cars bit generally overpowers th…

Yeah, it really adds to the pleasantness of everything when everything is not covered in cars and infrastructure for cars. The whole notion of street parking is bizarre. No one would tolerate if you used public space in the middle of a busy city to store your stuff. But if it's a car, suddenly it's OK. Just what?

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#75

Post by cjblomqvist »

null_object wrote: post #47
bedobi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I wish all cities everywhere was more like them! (and Tokyo)

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#76

Post by nine_k »

ekianjo wrote: post #44
makotobestgirl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is honestly the thing that bothers me most about cities the US. Having grown up in Europe, I find many (I'm sure there are exceptions) US cities to be plain ugly and unlivable. The reason is obvious to me. It's that they are designed around cars. It makes such a huge difference.

You don't really have real cities in the US = there are a few exceptions but most of the time it's just a very tiny center and a lot of people living away from the center. That's not what a traditional city looks like.

Exactly. The US has very few cities proper, and a lot of huge suburbs that sometimes feature a city-like downtown (L.A., Houston), and sometimes don't (most of the Silicon Valley).

The real honest dense US cities, such as NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, and a few others, were built large and dense before the advent of the car, and had entrenched public transportation system before 1930s.

Those that were not as lucky got remade for cars in 1930-1960s, and cemented in that state by zoning regulations.

Europe obviously had a large number of dense cities since medieval times. Even small cities in Europe often ended up dense due to land limitations, and the generally relatively high population density. Cities in the US very rarely faced this limitation early enough, with a few natural exceptions like Manhattan or San Francisco.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#77

Post by bedobi »

ehnto wrote: post #65

> Tokyo comes joint fourth, but its population is larger than the combined populations of the others (Adelaide, Auckland, Osaka and Wellington). Having lived in Adelaide and visited Toyko, Osaka and a bunch of other Japanese cities, I can take a crack at the difference: Adelaide is a great lifestyle city, if you don't actually want to live in a city, love car enabled lifestyles and the outdoors. Tokyo would be great…

I honestly don't understand how "cities" like Adelaide, Auckland and Wellington keep making these lists of "most liveable cities".

Their low populations mean they just don't have much of the things that make cities desirable. (like, lots of culture, lots of diversity, lots of options for dining and activities etc etc)

Granted, that can make them comparatively pleasant and peaceful, with good access to outdoors and fresh air, but yeah, it's disingenuous to even include them in a comparison that includes Tokyo, London, New York, what have you.

In case anyone thinks this is me being uncharitable, I currently live in Brisbane Australia, which is hardly a cosmopolitan global elite city either, so this isn't me throwing shade, I'm just saying.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#78

Post by bedobi »

cjblomqvist wrote: post #75
null_object wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

Having 2-3 major automobile (cars, trucks, busses, etc) manufacturers in a country half (or less) the population of NYC probably explains why.

Overwhelmingly, it's the Social Democrat party, not evil capitalists or car manufacturers, who are responsible for aggressively promoting cars and car centric policy and infrastructure in Sweden. This fact will grind the gears of both Swedes and misinformed Americans alike, lol.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#79

Post by rootsudo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #45
tjpnz wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay isn't that bad provided your expectations are reasonable. For reference I'm making more here than I could expect to make in NZ/AU/UK but nothing close to what's on offer in SV.

You can probably make more in China than Japan as a dev, assuming you have some talent that can’t be found easily locally. Of course, it might be impossible now given how the Chinese government has shifted, but that isn’t because of demand.

Not impossible, just depends how much in demand are you. Chinese companies prefer to train their employees to learn and then you have 996/007.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#80

Post by cosmodisk »

null_object wrote: post #47
bedobi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I wish all cities everywhere was more like them! (and Tokyo)

> I grew up in Stockholm and it too sadly is very, very car centric compared to Tokyo. Amsterdam, Barcelona, Copenhagen, Paris and others are much better... I’m really glad to see this because I moved from central London to central Stockholm 20 years ago and no one believes me when I tell them I find this town more car-centric even than London. Away from the tourist areas, everything in Stockholm is arranged around t…

I lived in Stockholm for sometime before moving to London. There are a lot of parts in London where it's very easy to live without a car. I think the main reason is because it's essentially made of small towns that eventually all merged together. One is never too far from a fully functional high street and etc. Stockholm is built differently and having a car there makes life much easier even though the public transport is very good.
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