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Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

economist.com

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Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#31

Post by deltaonefour »

mantas wrote: post #24
deltaonefour wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean eventually I want to learn the language right? The point is there will be a period of time where I don't know the language and hang out with my fellow ex-pats. Additionally I will never ever really actually master the language to the point where I'm indistinguishable from a native. I'm just wondering is Japan bearable under these conditions?

On top of that, it’s very easy to get stuck in expat community. It’s damn comfy. And it takes a lot of effort to break through. I spent 6 months in Japan a while ago. Working with other gaijins, hanging out with gaijins… My best contact with locals were at gaijin bars. They could speak some English, I could talk to locals. Was it bad? Definitely no. Could I make extra effort to talk to locals more? Yes. But since my…

Yeah, I'm actually ok with this if this is what ends up happening. I'd prefer mingling with the locals, but I get that it may be hard.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#32

Post by albertgoeswoof »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #27
bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

I feel like this is a chicken and egg problem. In many western cities - and I won't name names - the downtown area is not pleasant due to anti-social behaviour. So even when they do make it walkable, I don't want to walk there, I'd rather drive to a suburban mall and reduce my chances of an altercation. Until that's fixed it's a non-starter.

Is this a problem that America has generally? I.e there are areas where most people are scared to walk through in every city?

I know many parts of the world have problems like this, but Europe doesn’t have many places like that.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#33

Post by ErikVandeWater »

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

Shoutout to Not Just Bikes for thoroughly and enjoyably diving into the problem with cars as primary transit: https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#34

Post by ehnto »

bedobi wrote: post #8

Having lived in Tokyo for years, the elephant in the room is "cars". The whole city is full of pleasant mixed use neighborhoods that are more or less car-free, and centered around public transport hubs that have everything you need around them. People, including unaccompanied children, can and do safely walk and ride bikes everywhere at all hours of the day, including when grocery shopping etc. The world can learn a…

You really notice it too, walking around the city feels very quiet even though there are so many people and a decent amount of noise from businesses. When you make it to a busy road, there's a notable lack of businesses nearby and you really notice the noise difference. That said, car speeds in Japanese cities are slow, and cars are heavily regulated so they're just not as loud as other cities.

Cars add a sort of tense background track to life, perhaps because we perceive the danger subconsciously as a pedestrian. Sitting in my house in the burbs I can hear the highway out the window, in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto, there was a type of quiet I just wasn't expecting from a city.

I think the enabling features for this to occur are of course public transport and mixed use streets, mixed use sets the stage for a sensible compromise between cars and people. The majority of streets do actually allow cars, but you barely see any using them because they'd be incredibly slow, like walking speed. This means that if you decide to use one, you must really need it and so you can, but if not then you'll just use a road more suited to fast cars.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#35

Post by Prcmaker »

I had the pleasure of visiting Tokyo years ago, but after having visited many more cities since I only retrospectively realised how great it really was. I've been making plans to head back since 2019 and am excited to see how my experience changes now smartphones are accessible.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#36

Post by deltaonefour »

makotobestgirl wrote: post #25
deltaonefour wrote: post #4

I thought about getting a job there as a dev. However certain things like culture, low pay, the language, and making new friends has held me back. I really loved the city when I visited a couple years back. Does anyone live in Japan as a dev and not really know how to speak japanese? How has the experience been?

Living in Tokyo is amazing, but working for a Japanese company as a dev is probably not a great career move if you're relatively young. Software Engineering in Japan is many years behind the rest of the world, the pay is relatively low, and it isn't considered as desirable of a career as it is in other countries. It would be much better if you could find an international or remote company that allows you to live in J…

I thought about getting a remote role for an SV company while living in Tokyo but the timezone difference is way off.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#37

Post by seanmcdirmid »

patio11 wrote: post #10

It’s been notably less pleasant for the last two years, for reasons shared with substantially all cities (ex-China, I suppose). Would heartily recommend it otherwise, which would have surprised me when I was younger. In particular, the neighborhoods allow you to pick your vibe, pace, and sense of scale at multiple points along the continuum, so if e.g. the Shibuya scramble crosswalk is not your idea of a good time yo…

Chinese cities haven’t been doing much better. You have to wear a face mask everywhere, lots of mass people events are curtailed, domestic and international travel is restricted, and your city can go into lockdown at any time (like Xian right now).

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#38

Post by timr »

stanrivers wrote: post #11
deltaonefour wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean eventually I want to learn the language right? The point is there will be a period of time where I don't know the language and hang out with my fellow ex-pats. Additionally I will never ever really actually master the language to the point where I'm indistinguishable from a native. I'm just wondering is Japan bearable under these conditions?

Not to be depressing, but you could speak fluent Japanese and you will always be "my foreign friend" or "our foreign coworker" or "the white guy with really good Japanese" to, by and large, even your closest friends. On average, the country and its people are incredibly inviting and kind to guests and appreciative of foreigners that learn Japanese. However, you will always be viewed, by the vast majority, as being a…

I'm of mixed minds on this. The phenomenon is definitely real -- you'll be instinctively treated like a pet by a lot of people. This is frustrating. But I would not go as far as saying "you will always be 'my foreign friend'".

Many foreigners in Japan have no marketable skills, and therefore get stuffed into the comfortable role of Foreign Guy, and never leave the role. It's a seductive role: you can get by with pretty minimal language skill and cultural awareness, make enough money to live in a nice place and do fun things, and you don't have to live with any of those annoying rules that drive the natives crazy!

So people get to a certain level of cultural proficiency, and stop. Perhaps they teach English (or some other non-Japanese language), and their professional identity becomes...English. They go to foreign-hangout places, and hang out with foreign people. They don't learn the cultural norms beyond tourist-level schtick, and stick out like a sore thumb in any social situation. So yeah, of course those people tend to attract people who fetishize foreigners. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I've also met foreigners living and working across the country, in real professional capacities. They have colleagues and friends spouses and lives that I characterize as native as you can get. You're never completely native -- but that's true anywhere.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#39

Post by seanmcdirmid »

makotobestgirl wrote: post #30
kstenerud wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't speak Japanese when I first moved there. In larger cities (especially Tokyo), there are plenty of people who speak English, so it's generally not a huge problem (although you'll find things easier if you do speak the language). The biggest issues are crowding and racism. Don't expect to get into any role of importance, and don't freak out when you hear "gaijin dame" (no foreigners allowed) in some places, or…

> The biggest issues are crowding and racism That's surprising to hear. I have lived in Tokyo a fair amount of time (5+ years) and only experienced true racism, e.g. being not being allowed in a place for being non-Japanese, a handful of times, and those were mostly for what would be considered nighttime establishment that are a bit shady. Not doubting your experience, just putting this here as another data point. Mo…

Do snack bars in any Japanese town/city allow foreigners? I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows.

Re: Tokyo: A big city that is also pleasant to live in

#40

Post by [deleted] »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #32
LAC-Tech wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like this is a chicken and egg problem. In many western cities - and I won't name names - the downtown area is not pleasant due to anti-social behaviour. So even when they do make it walkable, I don't want to walk there, I'd rather drive to a suburban mall and reduce my chances of an altercation. Until that's fixed it's a non-starter.

Is this a problem that America has generally? I.e there are areas where most people are scared to walk through in every city? I know many parts of the world have problems like this, but Europe doesn’t have many places like that.

[deleted]
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