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iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

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Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#451

Post by danShumway »

danShumway wrote: post #175

Before we criticize, before jumping to conclusions -- I just want to point out, it is a great leaf. Are we certain that the camera's decision was wrong? I mean, maybe we should consider the camera's judgement about what the best picture is. I'm not a photographer, if my camera tells me that my friend's head is best represented as a combination of sticks, leaves, and other natural objects, who am I to argue with that?…

Given the followup thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29750660), this may have accidentally turned out to be one of the better takes I've ever had on this site.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#452

Post by davidbarker »

rrauenza wrote: post #415

There was an update -- sounds like a leaf was really in the shot: > Big news! I sent @sdw the original image. He theorized a leaf from a foreground tree obscured the face. I didn’t think anything was in view, and the closest tree is a Japanese Maple (smaller leaves). But he’s right! Here’s a video I just shot, showing the parallax. Wow!

I'm the OP (of the HN submission — not the tweet). Really interesting discussions. I've upvoted this — hopefully it makes it to the top.

Here's the link to the HN discussion on the update: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29750660

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#453

Post by ffggvv »

rrauenza wrote: post #415

There was an update -- sounds like a leaf was really in the shot: > Big news! I sent @sdw the original image. He theorized a leaf from a foreground tree obscured the face. I didn’t think anything was in view, and the closest tree is a Japanese Maple (smaller leaves). But he’s right! Here’s a video I just shot, showing the parallax. Wow!

even if its a foreground tree it still looks blurry and strange doesn't it?

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#454

Post by kanbara »

TedShiller wrote: post #276
Gigachad wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No free lunch, but an incredibly good value lunch. The quality that comes out of phone cameras is remarkable. And the times it messes up are so rare that it becomes a talking point worthy of hundreds of comments.

No free lunch is right. iPhone photos look incredible on iPhone screens. They look terrible on my high resolution desktop screen. Instagram kids don't know this, but that's ok, because we don't need them to, and neither do they.

what's with the derision for a generation of kids who grew up with the internet, smartphones, and quite frankly amazing camera tech in their pockets?

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#455

Post by sudosysgen »

tagoregrtst wrote: post #445
sudosysgen wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's non linear in the X and y dimension because of grain. Any camera with a good antialiasing filter will also have little to no discretisation error.

Its non linear because enlarger optics are non linear. The image of a digital or a film photo is a mosaic. This mosaic can be mathematically enlarged into a large mosaic. If you enlarge far enough you’ll see the individual tiles. This is a linear operation no matter the shape of the tile. Digital photos do not, however, just make the tiles larger. They could but its not done. Even before enlarging, they interpolate b…

Actually, it's not a superresolution situation. Normally, the resolution of the sensor is higher than that of the screen.

The algorithm used when zooming in a video on any platform I know about is no different as far as distorting as enlarging optics. They are moreso interpolation algorithms than superresolution algorithms.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#456

Post by CarVac »

kevincox wrote: post #435
CarVac wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with phone raws is that either: 1. They're not raw, they're aligned and merged and denoised and sharpened just like this iPhone photo (they're just linear so you can adjust white balance and recover shadows, working with them the way you could a real raw file) or 2. They look like total garbage, noisy as heck and horribly soft, because the sensors are tiny and the lenses are simultaneously limited by diff…

The raw mode for these wouldn't be a single image. It would be a video with lots of low-quality frames. Then your "raw processing" would be deciding how to align and Marge the frames, which to drop... I think the idea that raw is a 2d array of pixels is outdated by the way modern cameras, especially smartphone cameras work.

You could do that, but most raw processing software is not equipped to handle tile-based aligning and merging so nothing would support it...

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#457

Post by CarVac »

maxerickson wrote: post #404
CarVac wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with phone raws is that either: 1. They're not raw, they're aligned and merged and denoised and sharpened just like this iPhone photo (they're just linear so you can adjust white balance and recover shadows, working with them the way you could a real raw file) or 2. They look like total garbage, noisy as heck and horribly soft, because the sensors are tiny and the lenses are simultaneously limited by diff…

They just need to offer an option without aggressive processing, they don't need to try to make it competitive with dedicated cameras.

It does exist, it's option #2. It sucks.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#458

Post by ryeights »

kortex wrote: post #257
ryeights wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>RAW just means uncompressed This is not accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raw_image_format

A) I'm not sure what nit you are picking, RAW formats are typically not compressed, and if they are (I haven't encountered any personally) they would be losslessly compressed. They certainly aren't quantized. Edit: ok here's some lossless and lossy compression of RAW. IMHO, "lossy compressed raw" is an oxymoron. https://photographylife.com/compressed-vs-uncompressed-vs-lo... B) the context is whether a raw photo can…

> I'm not sure what nit you are picking

RAW photos are not “just” uncompressed versions of the JPEGs your camera usually gives you. That would be a TIFF. Rather, they contain raw sensor data.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#459

Post by kevincox »

CarVac wrote: post #456
kevincox wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The raw mode for these wouldn't be a single image. It would be a video with lots of low-quality frames. Then your "raw processing" would be deciding how to align and Marge the frames, which to drop... I think the idea that raw is a 2d array of pixels is outdated by the way modern cameras, especially smartphone cameras work.

You could do that, but most raw processing software is not equipped to handle tile-based aligning and merging so nothing would support it...

For sure, and that is likely part of the reason that their "raw" options are a flattened image.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#460

Post by mynameisvlad »

emkoemko wrote: post #429
mynameisvlad wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras don't have DoF sensors which I believe the phone uses in its processing to know if there's a subject in frame.

they have that dof sensor so they can emulate dof, we get real dof.

Ok, cool.

The processor still doesn't have access to said "real dof", which is the point of this comment thread.

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