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Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

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Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#121

Post by systemvoltage »

rmbyrro wrote: post #62
RivieraKid wrote: post #29

I'm sad that the UK has left the EU. Out of Germany, France and the UK, they always seemed like the voice of reason and the least bureaucratic. I can't exactly pinpoint why I think that but here are some examples - (1) they don't make ridiculous policy decisions such as shutting down nuclear power plants (ok, leaving the EU is an exception to this) (2) best at e-government (3) seems like a good environment for startu…

Maybe Brittons got tired of so many ridiculous policies from the EU shoving down their throats?... Not saying I'm pro or against Brexit, just that your point seems to corroborate their decision to leave.

I initially opposed the move but now it sort of makes sense. Previously I was influencing my own thoughts from the liberal media sphere but the more you dig into the reasons why UK left the EU, the more convinced I am. Just look at the vaccine fuck ups by the EU. UK has one of the best vaccination strategies in the world barring smaller nations like Israel, UAE and Qatar. And of course, China.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#122

Post by protastus »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #80
SavantIdiot wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not politics. It is a practical reality that it is dangerous. As dangerous as coal plants. But for some reason HN likes to turn a blind eye to un-disposable toxic waste and the potential for citywide devastation (Chernobyl).

You are delusional. Coal plants kill millions of people worldwide every year. How many people died from Chernobyl? About 50, despite over 100,000 people working at the site on cleanup. The adjacent reactors continued to run and provide power for about a decade after the incident. How many people died of radiation poisoning at Fukushima? Zero. Zero!

> How many people died from Chernobyl? About 50, despite over 100,000 people working at the site on cleanup. The adjacent reactors continued to run and provide power for about a decade after the incident.

I am surprised you're quoting official Soviet numbers. Numbers that weren't updated since the early days of the accident.

> How many people died of radiation poisoning at Fukushima? Zero.

At what cost?

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#123

Post by luckylion »

la_fayette wrote: post #67
jpxw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One incident caused by a natural disaster that would never happen in a European country like Germany, the other caused by mismanagement and frankly jaw droppingly pigheaded incompetence which would also never happen in a country like Germany. Edit: in response to the large number of people bringing up BER and other infrastructure failures in Germany: yes, BER and others may have been bad, but a completely different k…

This summer a large part of germany was completely flooded. This was a natural disaster, which might happen at higher frequencies nowadays. The alarming systems in place competely failed and around 200 people drowned in Germany. There are so many things which could happen and countries like Germany are not prepared for.

> This was a natural disaster, which might happen at higher frequencies nowadays.

You don't build nuclear power plants in narrow valleys with known flood events though. I mean, you also don't build wind turbines in swamps and hope they don't fall over, or put solar panels on your roof and don't fasten them.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#124

Post by errantmind »

davidhariri wrote: post #73
oaiey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is amazing. But two major incidents within 30 years time range are not so amazing. When we continue in that rate we will have a serious problem. And with aging reactors and instability everywhere it does not look good.

This is so wrong. If you look at the death rate from those incidents and compare them to the death rates of literally any other source of energy (including other renewables), they are much much lower. Nuclear is proven to be our most safe, clean and renewable source of energy. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldw...

It isn't about averages, it is about perceived tail risk.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#126

Post by Schlaefer »

fivre wrote: post #78
chess_buster wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's insanely costly.

it's insanely costly _to build bring a plant online initially_ once you're up and running, it's cheap as dirt, just takes decades to pay off the initial investment

It's dirt cheap because it's heavily subsidized by the public. For example no commercial entity in the world insures a nuclear power plant. These costs are completely hidden.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#127

Post by toomuchtodo »

inter_netuser wrote: post #84
pydry wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not politics preventing nuclear power it's the eye watering cost. Unless you count getting taxpayers to shoulder the cost as politics.

solar panels killed more people in their short history, than nuclear power plants in their much longer history. if you count roof installers dying/getting injured on the job. do they count or we can just discount them?

Utility scale solar is built on the ground, no roof work required, very safe. The panels can be recycled almost entirely, similar to the utility scale battery storage that can back it. Tesla is scaling up utility storage manufacturing, Redwood Materials is scaling up recycling to close the loop and provide cheaper feedstock once there’s enough raw materials in the loop. Europe’s entire wind potential could power the world.

New nuclear is a pipe dream (~10-15 years from breaking ground to first kWh produced), but old nuclear generators should be ran as long as safely possible. Big fail on Germany’s part here, although natural gas price spikes will force their hand on more renewables, transmission (including cross border interconnectors), and battery storage.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#128

Post by jacquesm »

dmead wrote: post #68
maxclark wrote: post #12

Nuclear power is an amazing energy source. It doesn’t look like we’ll ever get beyond the politics that would make small scale It’s really a shame.

I do not understand how 2 major incidents (in living memory) that could have ruined the biosphere don't discredit nuclear power for everyone.

2? Windscale, 3 Mile Island, Fukushima, Chernobyl are the ones that are in my living memory, and many smaller ones besides.

The number of direct fatalities of those is fortunately low.

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#129

Post by wildmanxx »

davidhariri wrote: post #73
oaiey wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is amazing. But two major incidents within 30 years time range are not so amazing. When we continue in that rate we will have a serious problem. And with aging reactors and instability everywhere it does not look good.

This is so wrong. If you look at the death rate from those incidents and compare them to the death rates of literally any other source of energy (including other renewables), they are much much lower. Nuclear is proven to be our most safe, clean and renewable source of energy. Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/494425/death-rate-worldw...

Maybe convince somebody then to have final storage for nuclear waste anywhere close to where they live. Once this crap is in your backyard, the armchair philosophers find excuses really fast.

Similar with wind turbines, but at least those are so small scale that you can convince closeby towns fast by just letting them participate in the profits. Different story for leaking barrels stored underground.

(And yes, that's how this crap ends up. Just google Asse II and then let's discuss German cleanliness again.)

Re: Germany shuts down half of its remaining nuclear plants

#130

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

k__ wrote: post #105
alexpetralia wrote: post #4

My extremely uninformed understanding is that there is an energy crisis in Europe, and that this will exacerbate the situation.

Basically all energy could be covered by renewables, if people would stop complaining that they don't want them build near them.

Please provide a source to substantiate your claim, because it flies in the face of everything I’ve read.
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