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iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

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Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#191

Post by hughrr »

tobyjsullivan wrote: post #80
mynameisash wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. My wife and I went out on a date about a month ago, and during it, she took a selfie of the two of us. There must have been some filter on by default because our faces looked perfectly lit, our skin completely blemish-free, no smile lines, etc. It was a great picture, but I remarked immediately that it didn't look real. And I don't want that -- it's not us but an idealized, optimized version of us. I sim…

This brings new meaning to the old quote, "history is written by victors." Today, the victors are Apple, Google, etc., and they are writing their own version of history as its recorded...

Nope. Give me a 40 year old East German camera and a roll of Ilford and I’m still perfectly capable of corrupting reality intentionally.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#192

Post by d3ad1ysp0rk »

mc32 wrote: post #139
KarlKemp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, maybe, knowing that releasing software that turns out to deliver markedly lower quality results for people already weary from centuries of marginalization would open them up to such accusations, they didn't get lucky so much as their are enjoying the benefit of having listened to such criticism, testing their software across a set of data as diverse as their customers, instead of just that set of photos from D'Br…

They still caught a break. Here people are like “lol Apple” and understand it’s the fault of the software and there isn’t incipient malice intended. Whereas on the other hand people are apt to make it into something it isn’t.

Yes I'm more likely to let Apple off for not training enough "people with a leafy backdrop" than "people with different colored skin" into their ML.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#194

Post by user-the-name »

ixfo wrote: post #96
user-the-name wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras have never, ever been "accurate". It is not technologically possible to create a photograph that is "accurate". Cameras have always made big tradeoffs to output something that actually looks good to humans.

Well, no, it's not perfectly possible to recreate a singular human vision system and capture and reproduce imagery to match that. But actually, we have lots of excellent, well-researched and proven standards for accuracy in imaging. Cameras generally target those standards, certainly professional ones. Many cameras - quite clearly - can produce very accurate photographs. The more worrying trend is that of pervasive p…

> Well, no, it's not perfectly possible to recreate a singular human vision system and capture and reproduce imagery to match that

How?

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#195

Post by wtallis »

hughrr wrote: post #186
floatboth wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that CPU shouldn't really do anything other than shoveling raw sensor data to flash as fast as possible. All the processing can happen on your workstation (or an iPad or whatever).

I’ve got nearly the same CPU in my iPad, MacBook and iPhone. I can do the processing on any device…

You don't have the same heatsink on all three, and not necessarily the same number of cores.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#196

Post by internet2000 »

osivertsson wrote: post #89

I sometimes hang out on mountainbike forums. A user posts that despite a new chain and setting up their rear derailleur according to instructions gear-changes are clunky or the chain skips when applying power on the pedals. The usual reply from the forum members is then to send a photo of the cassette since excessive wear there leads to these problems. This used to clearly show that the user needed to replace their w…

Focusing on the wrong thing? That’s not a ML issue.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#197

Post by foota »

spoonjim wrote: post #149
judge2020 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply adjusting light levels and sharpness wouldn't produce this good/clear of a photo in the conditions presented - AI/ML image post-processing is a hard requirement for sensors like these.

But it’s also just weird. That’s not my daughter’s skin in the photo, it’s 1000 other people’s skin blended together and textured in.

That's not necessarily true, I don't know the specifics of how it's implemented but it could just be used for select pixels from different frames in the shot?

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#198

Post by jjeaff »

creato wrote: post #188
judge2020 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply adjusting light levels and sharpness wouldn't produce this good/clear of a photo in the conditions presented - AI/ML image post-processing is a hard requirement for sensors like these.

The "hard requirement" is just multi-frame noise reduction, which has been around for a lot longer than the AI/ML hype wave, and has always had a risk of producing similar artifacts to this one.

Ya, I don't think anyone has been using ml/ai in camera phones up until the last 5 years maybe.

But it does seem like they have quite a few high tech algorithms at play. More than just multi-frame noise reduction.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#199

Post by noizejoy »

mynameisash wrote: post #38
matsemann wrote: post #12

I hate how much phones lately alters the images. Of course it most of the time makes the images look better, and cameras are a big selling point on a phone. But I don't like how my photos of people suddenly have a filter applied to the faces, how a picture of leaves during fall have vibrance exaggerated, how the sky looks clearer than it really did.

Fully agree. My wife and I went out on a date about a month ago, and during it, she took a selfie of the two of us. There must have been some filter on by default because our faces looked perfectly lit, our skin completely blemish-free, no smile lines, etc. It was a great picture, but I remarked immediately that it didn't look real. And I don't want that -- it's not us but an idealized, optimized version of us. I sim…

To be fair, human memory also liberally edits.

And historical representations also undergo changes, like the colour fading on old pictures, paintings and statues. And that’s in addition to all of the issues in capturing accurate colours and other details in the first place. Add a bit of optical illusion to at least some imagery and the entire question of historical accuracy becomes very messy very fast.

A prime example is astro-photography, where most of the well known imagery isn’t and may never be seen like that by even future evolved human eyes.

Photos are limited representations, just like they’ve always been.

But it’s understandable, that different individuals would prefer differently prioritized representations. And maybe that’s the next generation of tools. Give more choice, more facial wrinkles or fewer. More lighting and colour enhancements or less. etc.

Re: iPhone camera app replaces person’s head with a leaf in photo

#200

Post by wmf »

mikewhy wrote: post #178
literallyaduck wrote: post #123

Remember the Rittenhouse trial and the big to do about the video being enhanced when zoomed? Digital evidence and photos are suspicious for the purpose of evidence. Not commenting on the results of the trial. Sidebar not specific to that trial, slow motion, and slowed video shouldn't be shown to jurors because it creates the illusion of having more time to think. Everything in real life happens at one speed, you can'…

> the Rittenhouse trial and the big to do about the video being enhanced when zoomed I keep thinking about this, and was already when the case was going on. If linear interpolated zoom isn't allowed, no iPhone photo after a certain time should be.

If linear interpolated zoom isn't allowed...

Think about analog/optical/chemical photography. In the old days did juries look at camera negatives with a loupe? Of course not, they looked at enlargements. What "algorithm" does an optical enlarger use?

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