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Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

theguardian.com

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Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#211

Post by allo37 »

runlevel1 wrote: post #194
allo37 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I remember when the "L" meant "learning" too (I think they changed it to "Life" now). I don't think consuming "stupid" entertainment makes us stupid or is even a solid indicator of intelligence (if you can settle on a definition of it). TLC just saw a market and pivoted, imo.

I agree with you to an extent. I think stupid entertainment is fine in moderation. Sometimes it's nice to mentally checkout for a while. Collectively, however, I think it's a bad sign. TLC isn't the only one who saw a market and pivoted. Sticking with TV examples, the History channel has shows about monsters and aliens now. Discovery's content is almost as bad. It's not just that there's a market for stupid entertain…

I don't really have any evidence to make a counterargument, so you might be right.

I could present an alternative viewpoint though: Cable access has steadily been losing marketshare to streaming services for a while now, so they're aiming for as much mass appeal as possible. It might not be that there is a lower proportion of people looking for educational entertainment than there was before, but that declining viewership has made it unprofitable to produce content for that niche. I see a lot of documentaries on Netflix, for example, and then there's CuriosityStream which is a service just for that, right?

Also a lot of "edutainment" is and always has been sensationalism...I remember watching a documentary about how solar storms were gonna wipe out humanity any day now, and "top 100 things removed from the human body" on old-school TLC (spoiler: #1 was a petrified fetal twin!)

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#212

Post by motohagiography »

If I were looking for a poignant pause, I'd compare anything Christopher Hitchens wrote for the Guardian a decade ago to what we're commenting on now, and consider whether this article about the prophecy of Idiocracy might land a bit closer to the writer than to the mark.

The reason to be this pointed about it is the cognitive style of articles like these is to seduce readers with sympathy for their smallest and cruelist sentiments. It's as though media appointees imagine themselves as fomenting a better calibre of angry mob or inciting the right kind of superstitious villager. Appealing to Idiocracy as a parable of caution for our times seems a bit rich, especially when the very cause of the idiocy in the movie was that the society in the story had been completely coddled and unchallenged by the very people whose job it was to provoke some kind of thoughtfulness and reflection.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#213

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

FredPret wrote: post #94
chrisseaton wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we think we need intelligent people in order to have intelligent children that seems like an argument for nepotism and hereditary positions, which isn't very progressive.

Perhaps the fact that we DO need intelligent people to have intelligent children will lead to some forced changes in our society down the line, progressive or not

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regression_toward_the_mean

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#214

Post by marcosdumay »

vorpalhex wrote: post #154
titzer wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not disputing the numbers. Read my comment again.

> There are plenty of reasons to question whether the Flynn effect (rise in IQ test scores) actually reflects increases in general intelligence rather than testing skills. The Flynn effect appears to reflect increases in general intelligence unless you believe world wide testing scores all have the same bias, across different tests.

Hum, there is very clearly a test taking skill that is independent of the tests contents.

As tests were less important a few generations ago, it's perfectly possible that people were unprepared for them.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#215

Post by jackcosgrove »

hamiltonians wrote: post #126
netcan wrote: post #103

Idiocracy is fun, but the instinctive "OMG so true" is, IMO, wrong. The film riffs on a common fallacy more so than it's actually insightful. Statements like "people these days are so stupid/lazy/immoral" tend get an instinctive thumbs up. The slang, pop culture & consumerism of the future are the main way the film "demonstrates" that people got dumber. The premise of Idiocracy is that dumb people reproduce more and…

more like society becoming more bifurcated between the smart and successfull vs. everyone else, instead of everyone becoming dumber.

The middle class is disappearing, but a larger proportion of the part that disappears every year becomes better off than worse off. The upper middle class and the working poor are both increasing in size at the expense of the middle class, but the upper middle class is growing more.

The broadcast components of our culture which must appeal to the largest cross-section of society do indeed cater more to the lower end compared to years past, because that is where the largest number of people still are. Without the middle class glue holding the top and bottom together, the center of gravity of popular culture gradually gets lower.

This tends to drown out the first trend I mentioned, the growth of the upper middle class, if you stick to broadcast media like movies, TV, and radio. But when you look at other forms of media which target cultural niches, you'll find the upper end is alive and well.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#216

Post by freen »

plorg wrote: post #203
freen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the dumb vote in droves for a buffoonish reality tv star they think will fire enough people in Government so that they don’t have to pay taxes anymore. The orange one also hates brown people as much as they do and is unafraid to say it out loud. Also, it’s just a bonus that their reality tv star really, really pisses off those rich educated folks in the city who “look down” them.

I think it's pretty naive to think that the only people to vote for, campaign for, and work for Trump were "dumb". Plenty of "smart" people made decisions between supporting, campaigning for, working for, or defending his campaign and administration because the things that are bad about him don't really affect (or benefit) their own interests.

Yes, approximately 2-3% of the population are sociopaths, who are only self-interested.

Another huge portion or of the population really just care about getting wealthy, with litter regard for anything else.

Seriously, if you want to be rich, all you have to do is be somewhat bright and willing to be a Republican political operative.

See Madison Cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, Sarah Palin, etc.

I’ve see it myself: some of the dumbest folks I went to school with are killing it in the GOP. Dumb as rocks.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#217

Post by freen »

freen wrote: post #216
plorg wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty naive to think that the only people to vote for, campaign for, and work for Trump were "dumb". Plenty of "smart" people made decisions between supporting, campaigning for, working for, or defending his campaign and administration because the things that are bad about him don't really affect (or benefit) their own interests.

Yes, approximately 2-3% of the population are sociopaths, who are only self-interested. Another huge portion or of the population really just care about getting wealthy, with litter regard for anything else. Seriously, if you want to be rich, all you have to do is be somewhat bright and willing to be a Republican political operative. See Madison Cawthorn, Marjorie Taylor Green, Sarah Palin, etc. I’ve see it myself: s…

The bulk of the voters?

Go and talk to them yourself. You’ll see.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#218

Post by freen »

bckr wrote: post #187
freen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the dumb vote in droves for a buffoonish reality tv star they think will fire enough people in Government so that they don’t have to pay taxes anymore. The orange one also hates brown people as much as they do and is unafraid to say it out loud. Also, it’s just a bonus that their reality tv star really, really pisses off those rich educated folks in the city who “look down” them.

I look forward to when not everything is about that man. But we're not there yet, are we?

Ahh, yes. Ascendant fascism. Soooo boring.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#219

Post by mullingitover »

chrsig wrote: post #208
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me take a couple of specific examples. Upon being told that an asteroid large enough to destroy human civilization was on course to hit the earth in 6 months, the President decided that it would make strategic sense to delay announcing or acting on the threat until after the midterms - a month or so later. This was conspicuous for the fact no reason was given, which had to be the case as it makes no sense. Collec…

> Let me take a couple of specific examples. Upon being told that an asteroid large enough to destroy human civilization was on course to hit the earth in 6 months, the President decided that it would make strategic sense to delay announcing or acting on the threat until after the midterms - a month or so later. This was conspicuous for the fact no reason was given, which had to be the case as it makes no sense. Coun…

> Counter example: Trump new about the severity of covid and downplayed it for quite some time instead of trying to rally the country.

The irony is that the pandemic was such a slam-dunk easy win politically. Handled with the minimum level of political savvy, this was a dead simple way to send his approval ratings into the van allen belt, just like Bush post-9/11. I think his personal financial stake in the hospitality industry clouded his judgment and prevented him from taking advantage of the biggest election campaign tailwind in a generation.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#220

Post by freen »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #197
netcan wrote: post #103

Idiocracy is fun, but the instinctive "OMG so true" is, IMO, wrong. The film riffs on a common fallacy more so than it's actually insightful. Statements like "people these days are so stupid/lazy/immoral" tend get an instinctive thumbs up. The slang, pop culture & consumerism of the future are the main way the film "demonstrates" that people got dumber. The premise of Idiocracy is that dumb people reproduce more and…

Relevant xkcd: https://m.xkcd.com/603/

Counterpoint: Biff Tannen as president was explicitly an allegory for what it would be like if Donald Trump was president.
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