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Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

theguardian.com

201–210 of 302 posts

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#201
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree. It attempts to satirise today's mass media by exaggerating its influence on politics to the point at which it revolves around little else, succumbing to what it is supposed to be objecting to: the idea of politics and politicians as trivial. The plotline was so wildly implausible that it ended up saying little about the real world. Also, the asteroid threat is not a good analogy for climate change…

We do indeed disagree! I don't think it was saying that politics and politicians as trivial -- I think it was saying that they're not necessarily smart people, and they're certainly not necessarily acting in the best interests of the people they serve. I think they were also saying that the media serves to reinforce denial in the general population. The asteroid is just a plot device -- the message is that in the fac…

Let me take a couple of specific examples. Upon being told that an asteroid large enough to destroy human civilization was on course to hit the earth in 6 months, the President decided that it would make strategic sense to delay announcing or acting on the threat until after the midterms - a month or so later. This was conspicuous for the fact no reason was given, which had to be the case as it makes no sense.

Collective threats of this kind have historically created a rally-around-the-flag effect the helps incumbents. Even a venal politician would not assist in the imminent destruction of the planet from which they themselves could not escape. Obviously information of that magnitude of importance would leak, as it did in the film. Meaning its only effect would be to crater the President's support when it became clear they hid the truth. Even an amaetuer political observer would understand all this, let alone a Whitehouse team that won a Presidential election.

Or how about the manner in which the astronomers announced their discovery? They went to the NYT, who inexplicably decided that they would forego running the biggest story in human history. Instead, they helped arrange for the astronomers to announce their discovery in a 2-minute segment on an infotainment news show. Neither the NYT, nor the astronomers, nor anyone would think that was a good idea. It would never, ever happen. During the interview, one of the astronomers got upset because the talk show hosts were nonchalant about the news of the possible end of civilization (!?). Returning to the NYT offices, they're told that the journalists were able to confirm their findings with well-respected third party scientists, but that because one of the astronomers got upset in air, they weren't going to run the story - again, easily the biggest story in human history, which anyone could appreciate at such.

The upshot of this never-ending string of implausible plot points is that the film ends up obfuscating how real politics works. It dumbs politics down and makes it trivial to make an easy joke, making it part of the problem that it ostensibly satirises.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#202

The irony for me here is that the author adds no additional intelligence or insight of their own - this is a simple retelling of the story of the Idiocracy film - framed as a prophecy coming true - simply to add eyeballs to the content machine that pays their salary.

If more people watch the film and become aware of the state of our "society" maybe such a blog post still served a purpose.

For sure! I'm not saying it has no purpose, but I wish it had a bit more intellectual weight to it.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#203
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it the smart who are successful?

Yes, but the dumb vote in droves for a buffoonish reality tv star they think will fire enough people in Government so that they don’t have to pay taxes anymore. The orange one also hates brown people as much as they do and is unafraid to say it out loud. Also, it’s just a bonus that their reality tv star really, really pisses off those rich educated folks in the city who “look down” them.

I think it's pretty naive to think that the only people to vote for, campaign for, and work for Trump were "dumb". Plenty of "smart" people made decisions between supporting, campaigning for, working for, or defending his campaign and administration because the things that are bad about him don't really affect (or benefit) their own interests.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#204
It's not actually a completely original premise:

> "The Marching Morons" is a science fiction story by American writer Cyril M. Kornbluth, originally published in Galaxy in April 1951.

> The story follows John Barlow, who was put into suspended animation by a freak accident involving a dental drill and anesthesia. Barlow is revived hundreds of years in the future. The world seems mad to Barlow until he discovers the 'Problem of Population': due to a combination of intelligent people not having children and excessive breeding by less intelligent people and coupled with the development of more sophisticated machinery that makes it less important to possess intelligence in one's working life, the world is full of morons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#205
post #103

Idiocracy is fun, but the instinctive "OMG so true" is, IMO, wrong. The film riffs on a common fallacy more so than it's actually insightful. Statements like "people these days are so stupid/lazy/immoral" tend get an instinctive thumbs up. The slang, pop culture & consumerism of the future are the main way the film "demonstrates" that people got dumber. The premise of Idiocracy is that dumb people reproduce more and…

My problem with Idiocracy is the assumption that working class and poor breed only more dumb people. This is untrue, as many of our brightest people came from humble backgrounds. The quote evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould is most know for is “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein's brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fi…

[deleted]

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Idiocracy was satirical comedy, Don't Look Up is just satire.

DLU didn't know WHAT it wanted to be, so it tried to be both a comedy AND drama. Sucked at both, imo. Great cast. Lousy execution. Can't for the life of me figure out the appeal. I mean, sure, people are morons, but everyone everywhere had to be CARTOONISHLY stupid and incompetent in the flick to make the plot work. That worked for Idiocracy because that was the projected future. A warning. DLU needs that level of du…

I would argue that our reality today is even dumber and more hostile in some ways, so I suppose this is a matter of outlook. I was surprised that they didn't have a literal war break out, for example.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#207
The civilizations and societies rise and decline all the time. There is no reason to believe that this time will be different. Thinking otherwise is only wishful thinking, comparable to the idea that the price of house/stock/bitcoin can only rise. What we might disagree though is if we have already entered into decline or not. People overestimate education. The majority of population who play the biggest role in how society evolves don't get any wiser because of the school. One can even argue that today's education is dumber than say 30-40 years ago.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#208
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do indeed disagree! I don't think it was saying that politics and politicians as trivial -- I think it was saying that they're not necessarily smart people, and they're certainly not necessarily acting in the best interests of the people they serve. I think they were also saying that the media serves to reinforce denial in the general population. The asteroid is just a plot device -- the message is that in the fac…

Let me take a couple of specific examples. Upon being told that an asteroid large enough to destroy human civilization was on course to hit the earth in 6 months, the President decided that it would make strategic sense to delay announcing or acting on the threat until after the midterms - a month or so later. This was conspicuous for the fact no reason was given, which had to be the case as it makes no sense. Collec…

> Let me take a couple of specific examples. Upon being told that an asteroid large enough to destroy human civilization was on course to hit the earth in 6 months, the President decided that it would make strategic sense to delay announcing or acting on the threat until after the midterms - a month or so later. This was conspicuous for the fact no reason was given, which had to be the case as it makes no sense.

Counter example: Trump new about the severity of covid and downplayed it for quite some time instead of trying to rally the country.

> Meaning its only effect would be to crater the President's support when it became clear they hid the truth. Even an amaetuer political observer would understand all this, let alone a Whitehouse team that won a Presidential election.

In light of the above, this has been shown to be false. There absolutely can be some fanatical base that will construct shared delusional propaganda to avoid the realization that they've been conned.

> Or how about the manner in which the astronomers announced their discovery? They went to the NYT, who inexplicably decided that they would forego running the biggest story in human history. Instead, they helped arrange for the astronomers to announce their discovery in a 2-minute segment on an infotainment news show. Neither the NYT, nor the astronomers, nor anyone would think that was a good idea. It would never, ever happen.

This I'm more inclined to believe. I'm not sure if it would impact the outcome though. I can't imagine there's a huge overlap in people that read the NYT versus watch morning infotainment. I've also lost all faith in humanity, so I can't rule out that it's quite possible that people would make such bad decisions.

> During the interview, one of the astronomers got upset because the talk show hosts were nonchalant about the news of the possible end of civilization (!?). Returning to the NYT offices, they're told that the journalists were able to confirm their findings with well-respected third party scientists, but that because one of the astronomers got upset in air, they weren't going to run the story - again, easily the biggest story in human history, which anyone could appreciate at such.

I think this pretty firmly falls into satirical license as a commentary on meme culture, and how people care more about the messenger than the message.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#209
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ronald Reagan. Donald Trump. Shit... why not Dwayne Johnson?

I don't think grouping Reagan and The Rock with Trump is fair at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31083Hp7OVw&t=120s

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Arnold would become a president at some point if he was born in the US.

I don’t see why having to be born in the country you’ve adopted is a requirement. If anything, making a choice to be a citizen and public leader is more significant an indicator of loyalty than an accident of birth.

Not everything can be chosen.
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