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Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

theguardian.com

41–50 of 302 posts

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#41
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is this not also a bastardization of language? Is anyone denying that the earth has a climate? To be fair to the author, it seems like a deliberate trashing of nuance. Do you actually not understand what the author means by “climate deniers”? The intended meaning seems quite clear to me.

The bigger issue for those who object might be ceding control over personal energy consumption to authoritarian central planners. It fits with a pattern of usurpation of individual liberties under the pretense of emergency. Whether or not the Earth has a warming climate is largely irrelevant to this point. The next question would be what the optimal climate is and how do these experts know what it is? We've gone from…

This is a really good example of not liking a solution and resolving that conflict by denying the problem. Was there a single point in your life where your worldview crystalized or was it an evolving process? I'm genuinely interested in how people arrive at the place your at.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#42
post #8

Don't Look Up, currently out on Netflix, seems to owe a fair amount to Idiocracy. And/or to the ways in which American culture morphed into Idiocracy over the last several years.

Yea, but while accurate it was terrible. Idiocracy is funny, Don’t Look Up was not to me.

I do not think the point of this thread is to discuss our personal liking of these movies but just to add another data point to yours, as much as I agree with the message of Idiocracy and found it merely funny, Don't Look Up was a really good movie for me.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#43
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the underlying message was "Intelligent people, stop focusing on career and start having more kids (we really are in a race to the bottom)!"

Wouldn't the Dunning-Kruger effect mean that unintelligent people would just keep having kids while the Imposter Syndrome would mean Intelligent people would not?

guess you'd better not have kids then. don't worry, i'll do extra

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#44

Many people like to say "Idiocracy is a documentary" or some similar thing implying they think it's realistic. I've never seen anybody take the premise of the movie seriously though. If idiots are reproducing out of control and that will lead to a bad result, doesn't that mean we should reduce the reproduction of idiots and increase the reproduction of the intelligent? To avert Idiocracy we need eugenics, no?

> I've never seen anybody take the premise of the movie seriously though.

Where have you looked? People have been talking about this for awhile now.

> If idiots are reproducing out of control and that will lead to a bad result

Yeah...

> doesn't that mean we should reduce the reproduction of idiots and increase the reproduction of the intelligent?

Who's "we" in that sentence? Intelligent people are unlikely to adopt foolish plans, by definition.

E.g. consider the (as yet fictional) Bene Gesserit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#45
One thing that is maybe missing in this discussion is that this is not a new phenomenon. Greek antiquity had a period of intellectual enlightenment when science became popular enough to rival religion (see eg. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_rerum_natura ) then long medieval and dark periods where this was no longer the case. Then a renaissance, many aspects of which were also non lasting.

The important thing to realize, especially in democracies is that non intellectuals usually have the most political power and it's the job of the smart to convince them to give support to smart things.

This requires bringing common people to science's side instead of making fun of them. Although I enjoyed this movie and the newer one tackling the same themes as comic relief of really sad real world parallel situations, in some ways these movie makes the problem worst.

There could be ways to turn a lot of people around to support good causes and to prevent them from falling pray to dangerous manipulators. There are tons of common folks who's views are constantly shifting based on primal emotions and there is no reason they couldn't be shifted towards following science and truth if those who represented those concepts showed more respect. With elections often very close, just a few percentage points could make a huge difference.

The people caricatured are often easy to manipulate, not very smart and are often aware they are not very smart. They are often looking for leaders to guide and shepherd them. They won't however follow intellectuals who punch down on people who don't have academic aptitude. Showing contempt for these people makes them ripe to instead be plucked by villainous politicians, fueling the power of evil.

Not everyone has the aptitude for academic thinking and they deserve no less respect. The fact that they confront the world as best as they can despite this handicap is worthy of praise. The common person is inherently vulnerable compared to the smart elite.

It's not about educating. Scientific arguments don't get you very far with people that can't grasp them.

These are people that only grasp the basics of morality and often only if they get help and reminders from moral guides and belief groups every sunday. Churches are their crutch, their wheelchair. Solving the sociological issues might require more participation and support of faith groups, helping improve them and shaping them. I cannot imagine anything that would work better to send shivers down anti-science politicians than if the pro-science would start gaining more influence inside faith groups.

This might require sometimes lowering the bar on standards of morality, empathy and rationality when dealing with these people. Advanced morality about things like race and gender is complex and not within everyone's reach. Advanced empathy involves multilevel recursive counterfactual meta-cognitive logic ( https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/K4eDzqS2rbcBDsCLZ/unrolling-... ) and sometimes academic understanding of past history. Though it seems natural to some humans, it's so complex that even the most advanced AIs cannot even begin to do it. Asking some of these people to understand these things is asking people in wheelchairs to run and run away they will.

In the US common folks having power is even enshrined in the constitution which starts with "We the people", "the people", having a long history of being a polite way to refer to the less intellectually abled. Only recently did "populism" turn into a dirty word (see https://taibbi.substack.com/p/kansas-should-go-f-itself?r=79... ).

The way to manage this is to live with respect alongside non-intellectuals and help shepherd them towards the good so they aren't captured by villains.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#47
post #27

Per the Flynn Effect, people are getting smarter. The source of the problems mentioned in the article is not increasing stupidity, it's a breakdown of the relationship between the elites and the masses. You see this clearly in the article where the author complains about sharing a country with deplorables with nutty beliefs. You see it in the elite turn against free speech: elites wonder aloud "is free speech a good…

There are plenty of reasons to question whether the Flynn effect (rise in IQ test scores) actually reflects increases in general intelligence rather than testing skills. Just now, reviewing the Wikipedia article on the subject, I don't see how the Flynn effect is incompatible with the mass psychosis induced by political polarization. People can excel at their jobs and yet rant absurd conspiracies as soon as they get triggered by the wrong political BS.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#48

"The underlying message of course is that humans ought to take such things as science, research and knowledge seriously, lest we create our own Idiocracy." Rather, I felt the underlying message of the film is that the film is a critique of the consumerism and corporatism of the US. The 'idiocracy' with how the government runs, the downward trend of education in the US, and the pessimistic views of our future.

> "The underlying message of course is that humans ought to take such things as science, research and knowledge seriously, lest we create our own Idiocracy."

The author of this article reached a fairly backwards conclusion. If the smart people hadn't prioritized careers in science and research over creating a family, idiocracy would not have occurred; the smart people would have procreated at the same rate as dumb people.

But I agree that it's more a critique of a "dopamine" driven culture that has no critical thinking skills.

Re: Idiocracy: A disturbingly prophetic look at the future

#49
post #40

One of the best predictions from Idiocracy is our reliance on AI that no one understands anymore. They made all of these systems that did everything for them and decades later, after barely even needing to think for themselves for so long, they’re dumb as rocks and have no idea how anything works.

That's more Wall-e than Idiocracy, I think. Was there any talk of AI in Idiocracy?
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